On Jul 17, 2:09=A0pm, Bob LeChevalier <loj...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
> The_Carpathia <writing...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
> >So much for education being a key issue in the debate, it seems. =A0In
> >recent speeches to NAACP, we see that ....
>
> >...both McCain and Obama sup****t teacher performance pay (opposed by
> >the unions).
>
> Meaningless, since they wouldn't necessarily sup****t the same policies
> on teacher performance pay.
According to their speeches...they do.
>
> >...both McCain and Obama sup****t charter schools (opposed by the
> >unions).
>
> Your evidence is lacking that the unions oppose charter schools.
>
Recent evidence has been provided many times, such as when the NEA
objected to Obama's speech, when he sup****ted charter schools. They
blasted him, afterwards, at their websites for that sup****t. The link
provided in the initial post, also, gave Obama sup****t for charter
schools as an example of his break from liberals (didn't follow the
link....did you).
> >...both McCain and Obama sup****t NCLB.
>
> But they mean different things when they say that.
>
Let me rephrase..then. BOTH will fund NCLB...better?
> >McCain says he will fully fund
> >it, while Obama says he will INCREASE funding for it (despite liberal
> >opposition to it).
>
> Unless they say where the money is coming from (and that answer
> doesn't include the meaningless "eliminate waste", I don't believe any
> politician who says that they will increase funding for anything).
>
> Any increases in funding had better mean an increase in taxes, or the
> deficit will get worse, which is unacceptable.
>
So, you are disagreeing with Obama's words in your argument about what
Obama sup****ts? Apparently, you know best what Obama believes (more
than Obama). However, I take note that you believe your own candidate
is lying to you...about who knows how much. Hint...he lied to you at
the start in saying he was a progressive.
> >...neither McCain and Obama want NCLB to stay the same but plan on
> >fixing any flaws it may have.
>
> But of course they see different flaws, so that is just attempt to
> paper over the differences.
>
You have evidence of this? Give me SPECIFIC flaw differences, here,
if you have them....
> >...McCain said he sup****ts voucher programs, while Obama recently was
> >condemned by the left for sup****ting government funds being given to
> >faith-based programs (which...I would assume...would include schools,
> >unless he is lying about it being ok to give government funds to
> >religious groups)
>
> That assumption has nothing to do with reality. =A0The discussions of
> "Faith-based programs" refer to social service programs for the poor.
It's still money from the government to religious groups, which is the
point.
>
>> . =A0Indeed, here's an article from May of this year
>
> >where Obama SUP****TED the idea of voucher programs...
> >http://www2.scholastic.com/browse/article.jsp?id=3D3749401
>
> I see two lines about vouchers in that article, and neither says that
> he sup****ts them.
>
> <"For example, he hasn=92t ruled out private school vouchers, and some
sa=
y he could return to the idea."
>
> That merely says that he hasn't taken an unflinching ideological
> stance against them. =A0
So, he is not against them.
> <OBAMA: =93If vouchers are proven to work], whatever my preconception,
yo=
u do what=92s best for kids.=94
>
> The second quote suggests that his preconception is against vouchers,
> but that he is willing to be open-minded. =A0Of course, since vouchers
> have NOT been proven to work, his statement indicates no changes in
> favor of vouchers.
This is stated policy of being willing to do vouchers and not being
against them. Since vouchers would come from congress, it only
matters if the President would veto such legislation. In regards to
this, BOTH Obama and McCain would not veto it.
>
> >...McCain said he sup****ts alternative certification programs (as if
> >he was the only one to sup****t such). =A0However, Obama's own website
> >says....
> >"Recruit Teachers: Obama will create new Teacher Service Scholar****ps
> >that will cover four years of undergraduate or two years of graduate
> >teacher education, including high-quality alternative programs for mid-
> >career recruits in exchange for teaching for at least four years in a
> >high-need field or location." =A0This would indicate sup****t by Obama
> >for alternative certification programs. =A0Thus...both agree, again.
>
> Not all "alternative certification programs" are alike. =A0Obama refers
> to HIGH-QUALITY programs, which necessarily excludes any program that
> lets someone like you into a classroom. =A0He also requires a 4-year
> teaching commitment. =A0That's a pretty high standard. =A0Teach for
> America has 75% turnover over 5 years, which is hardly good enough for
>
Obama.http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1571/is_2003_Nov_24/ai_11036=
4129
>
Dude. I am highly qualified, right now, according to state records.
YOU, on the other hand, are a punk. I have a college degree, 19 hours
of Education coursework, have passed a general knowledge test, two
subject knowledge tests (ABCTE and FL state), and a teacher knowledge
test that has been ruled harder than the one Praxis offers (only 40
percent pass the test). You just have an ego and an air of
superiority to speak down to those that have education training
(without any of your own) and false authority on a wide number of
subjects.
Just so you know...also. ABCTE (one of the many things that is behind
me) just released the results of a review of their alumni. A full 85
percent of their graduates that started teaching 3 years ago are STILL
there, three years later. That beats the retention rates of most
schools and beats (by far) the national average of teacher retention
rates.
That being said, I await your reference to OBAMA's words that say he
would not sup****t ABCTE, Teach for America, or other such
organizations. Throughout your response, here, you seem to reject
Obama's own words, where you don't like them, and add Obama's words,
where he hasn't said them. What's the matter? Don't like where he's
taking your party? Feeling betrayed?
Kenneth Clifton
christiansuperhero.com
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