Re: Vatican trying to avoid baptism by proxy

"D. Stussy" <spam@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message 
news:fvvm6g$u5i$1@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> "Bruce Remick" <remick@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
> news:s_tUj.71353$y05.28091@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> "D. Stussy" <spam@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
>> news:fvtpda$2ck$1@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> > "Bruce Remick" <remick@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
>> > news:6qtUj.71350$y05.18349@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> >> "D. Stussy" <spam@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
>> > news:fvtmeq$ts5$1@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> >> > "Bruce Remick" <remick@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
>> >> > news:xkrUj.71336$y05.27598@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> >> >> >>>> ...
>> >> >> >>>>>It is a totally meaningless gesture, but it is also
offensive
> and
>> >> > IMHO
>> >> >> >>>>>very disrespectful to my ancestors and their faith.
>> >> >> >>>>
>> >> >> >>>>How can something that's meaningless be offensive? In any
case,
> I
>> >> > don't
>> >> >> >>>>see why it's offensive if they invite people to join them -
> surely
>> >> > it's
>> >> >> >>>>a definition of any faith group that they're convinced that 
>> >> >> >>>>THEY
>> > are
>> >> >> >>>>right and everyone else is wrong? It would almost be
offensive
> and
>> >> >> >>>>lacking in respect if they didn't invite people to
join.......
> You
>> >> >> >>>>wouldn't invite people to join you if you didn't respect
them,
>> > would
>> >> >> >>>>you?
>> >> >> >>>>
>> >> >> >>>>If you believe that any faith system is correct, then the
>> > ceremonies
>> >> >> >>>>associated with that faith system are of great significance.
If
>> >> >> >>>>you
>> >> >> >>>>don't believe, then such ceremonies are of no significance,
> won't
>> > do
>> >> >> >>>>anything, and therefore don't matter.
>> >> >> >>>>Lesley Robertson
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>>It's a meaningless gesture because a baptism by proxy by the
>> >> >> >>>Mormons
>> >> >> >>>of
>> >> >> >>>my ancestors means nothing to me or my ancestors faithwise.
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>>I don't have a problem with the Mormons or their faith.  As
far
> as
>> > I'm
>> >> >> >>>concerned, it's their right to believe and wor****p however
they
>> > want.
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>>As far as being disrespectful to my ancestors and their 
>> >> >> >>>religious
>> >> > faith,
>> >> >> >>>it is disrespectful for one religious group to say that "THEY 
>> >> >> >>>are
>> >> >> >>>right
>> >> >> >>>and everyone else is wrong".
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> Don't followers of most every religion believe that theirs is 
>> >> >> >> the
>> >> > "right"
>> >> >> >> one, and that the others are either "wrong" or simply not
quite
> as
>> >> >> >> "right"? I see no disrespect in that.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Yes and that per se is not disrespectful.  However, IMHO it
does
>> > become
>> >> >> > disrespectful when one religion's believer continuously
persists
> in
>> >> > trying
>> >> >> > to convert another religion's believer...in other words, cram
> their
>> >> >> > "right" religion down one's throat.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Do you really believe that's the case here?  Do you really
consider
>> >> >> the
>> >> > LDS'
>> >> >> activities with regards to proxy baptisms to be "cramming their
>> > religion
>> >> >> down your throat"?   Would you have ever even known about it at
all
>> >> >> had
>> >> > you
>> >> >> not become interested in genealogy?  Do you consider your 
>> >> >> non-Mormon
>> >> >> ancestors to have been harmed or disgraced or their personal
> religion
>> >> >> defamed by these LDS' efforts?   Wouldn't a simple "Thanks, but
no
>> >> >> thanks"
>> >> >> be a more reasonable attitude?
>> >> >
>> >> > I find it offensive and improper for a member of any religion to
>> >> > attempt
>> >> > to
>> >> > impose his views on a person not of that same religion (or open to
> it).
>> >> > Where the dead are concerned, they already have been or will never

>> >> > be
>> > part
>> >> > of that religion, so it is offensive to attempt to retroactively
> impose
>> >> > the
>> >> > view.  It's not meaningless.
>> >> >
>> >> > In the U.S., one's right to practice a religion stops where it is
in
>> >> > conflict with someone else's right to do the same.  Proxy baptisms
>> >> > overstep
>> >> > that right.  LDS members can baptize their own as LDS all they
want,
>> >> > but
>> >> > they have no right to do that to non-church members - because that
>> >> > interferes with the non-members' right to practice and enjoy their
> own
>> >> > religion.
>> >>
>> >> Howzat?  How do LDS proxy ancestral baptisms interfere with your
right
> to
>> >> practice and enjoy your own religion, assuming you have one?  Were
you
>> >> practicing and enjoying your religion before you ever learned of
these
>> >> "baptisms"?
>> >
>> > Even if I do not know about it, NOTHING gives them the right to
baptize
> me
>> > into their religion AGAINST MY WILL.
>>
>> Okay.  Against your will, I have just baptized you into my personal
>> religion.  Your ancestors, too.  Hows that?  You actually should 
>> stockpile
>> as many of these baptisms as you can.  One of them may be the one that
> saves
>> you.
>
> For you to say that I subscribed in any way to "Remickism" (since you
> haven't otherwise told me your religion uses another name), you have
> effectively defamed my character as I have nor want any relation****p
> to/from/with you.  Tell me where your legal representative is so I can 
> serve
> him with a law suit.

I never claimed you do or ever will subscribe to "Remickism".  I simply 
decided to baptize you, period.  You said I had no right to do that if you

didn't want me to.  I believe I do.  I could even put a spell on you, or 
revoke your recent batism, but you seem like a nice enough person.   I
don't 
anticipate a future relation****p with you, either.  It's not part of the 
process.  Any character defamation as a result of my action is all in your

mind, especially if your character is that fragile.

I have never needed a legal representative because no one has ever 
questioned by right to baptize people.  Of course you have the right to 
reject the baptism I performed.  Why not simply do that if you feel
imposed 
upon?