"Ed Cryer" <ed@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
news:fqum2r$edv$1@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> "Jules F" <flynnjed@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
>
news:39827d50-582f-4f68-96cd-149592e4481e@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> in book 30 of Ab urbe, section 12, there is the following passage:
>>
>> ...sed si captiuae apud dominum uitae necisque suae uocem supplicem
>> mittere licet, si genua, si uictricem attingere dextram, precor
>> quaesoque per maiestatem regiam, in qua paulo ante nos quoque fuimus,
>> per gentis Numidarum nomen, quod tibi *** Syphace commune fuit, per
>> huiusce regiae deos, qui te melioribus ominibus accipiant quam
>> Syphacem hinc miserunt, hanc ueniam supplici des ut ipse quod***que
>> fert animus de captiua tua statuas neque me in cuiusquam Romani
>> superbum et crudele arbitrium uenire sinas.
>>
>> the phrase that concerns me is:
>>
>> 'per huiusce regiae deos, qui te melioribus ominibus accipiant quam
>> Syphacem hinc miserunt'
>>
>> If found this hard to translate. When I checked a couple of texts
>> against my attempt - they both give something like ' by the gods of
>> this palace that they may receive you with better omens than with
>> which they sent Syphax from here'
>>
>> 'accipiant' is clearly an optative subjunctive here but in all my
>> grammar books no mention is made of 'qui' + subjunctive being usable
>> like this.
>>
>> Any thoughts on this would be welcome.
>>
>> regards
>>
>>
>> Jules
>
> I find it very regular and correct. I have a way of illustrating the
> grammar.
>
> Try it without the "qui te melioribus" clause, and you get a pretty
> simple grammar; "precor...per (3 things).. veniam des...".
> Now put the clause in brackets; "per huiusce regiae deos (qui te
> melioribus ominibus accipiant quam Syphacem hinc miserunt) hanc ueniam
> supplici des".
> Now try a paraphrase of the clause, eg (atque velim te melioribus
> ominibus accipiant quam Syphacem hinc miserunt).
> So, the clause is a kind of exclamatory appeal (almost an aside) and
> it's become a relative clause as a stylistic usage.
>
> Ed
>
Supplementary comments.
How would you react to this Latin sentence?
Di te melioribus ominibus accipiant quam Syphacem hinc miserunt.
or
Utinam di te melioribus ominibus accipiant quam Syphacem hinc miserunt.
or
Velim di te melioribus ominibus accipiant quam Syphacem hinc miserunt.
Secondly, notice that each "per" in the triad has its relative clause.
And the last one uses an optative subjunctive.
Nicely rhetorical! Recommended in the best Roman schools of rhetoric!
Ed
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