Will Parsons wrote:
> B. T. Raven wrote:
>> Will Parsons wrote:
>>> B. T. Raven wrote:
>>>> I vote for:
>>>>
>>>> Kenitsjirus Oga
>>>> Kenitsjiri Oga
>>>> Kenitsjiro Oga
>>>> Kenitsjirum Oga
>>>> Kenitsjiro Oga
>>> Ugh! I can hardly think of a more un-Latin way of representing the
name.
>>> With four letters you have three sequences that either did not occur
at
>>> all in Latin or occurred only marginally:
>> As long as the roots are sound, there will be growth in the spring.
>>
>> --- Chauncey Gardiner
>>> 1) [ts] occurs only marginally at the boundary of two separate
syllables
>>> ("etsi", and perhaps a few other cases). It does not occur as an
affricate
>>> at all (being assimilated to "ss" as in "possum").
>>>
>>> 2) Sequences of two consonants + [j] don't occur as far as I know.
Even
>>> combinations of one consonant + [j] are pretty rare: assuming "etiam"
>>> is a compound from "et" + "jam", then the internal [j] apparently was
>>> vocalized to avoid having this situation.
>>>
>>> 3) [ji] occurs only marginally, and never in writing. The only
example
>>> that comes to mind is "conicere" (pronounced "conjicere") in its
various
>>> forms.
>>>
>>> And, of course, since J was not a separate letter from I,
"Kenitsjirus"
>>> = "Kenitsiirus", which would probably have suggested [kenitsi:rus].
>>>
>>>> Kenisirus or Kenitirus is more in line with restored pronunciation
>>>> phonology but it's better (and less confusing in spoken Latin) to
retain
>>>> the modern sibilants, especially in proper nouns. But I like
>>>> "squiidzjium" for "squeegee" too. Vernacular surnames are usually
>>>> considered both indeclinable and immutable in orthography.
>>> I can see "Kenisirus", since that does suggest the medial sibilant.
>>> But if one takes the Latinized form and tries to reconstruct the
Japanese
>>> form, one is liable to come up with "Keni****ro" from "Kenisirus",
whereas
>>> "Kenitirus" yields the original form.
>>>
>>>> If you favor the ecclesiastical pronunciation you can represent the
same
>>>> thing as Kenicirus or Chenicirus.
>>> True, but that is likely to cause confusion - consider how often one
hears
>>> Genghis (from Mongol Chingiz) mispronounced with a hard G.
>> All true. That's why Genghis Latin name is "Dzjengis." ;-)
>> Now I want to lose that intrusive 'i' and write:
>>
>> Kentsjirus Oga
>>
>> A cluster of 3 consonants + a semi-consonant. So
>> ts = German tz, Italian z (pure?)
>> sj = English sh
>> zj = French z in azure
>> tsj = Spanish ch
>> dzj = English j
>>
>> maybe even rzj for the medial sound of Dvorak,
>>
>> etc. ad naus. to include all the phones representable by the IPA.
>
> Hmm - Dvorzjacus. Let's not forget the canjones and ljamas. And
> wasn't there a Premier of the USSR called Chrusjtsjoffius?
Right on except that you don't need the double f or the i before us.
I don't see any palatalization after the в in the last name Никита
Сергеевич Хрущёв
> (You're the guy that liked tsjocolatum, If I remember. Right ;-) )
No. "Tsjocolatlum" I heard somewhere that Nahuatl uses masculine and/or
feminine only for persons. I like the word and the thing: theobroma, the
food of the gods. Like ambrosia, I guess.
>
> - Will
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