On Apr 10, 1:43=A0am, "Ed Cryer" <e...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
> "Alastor" <ross...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
>
>
news:6b6c7c68-096e-45f8-8dcc-c25d938214b8@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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> > The wonders of the modern age! Here is a recitation of poem 52 by
> > Catullus:
>
>http://latinum.mypodcast.com/2007/07/Cantator_reads_Catullus_51_and_s...
>
> > I don't fully agree with this style of recitation. Catullus is a poet
> > seriously smitten by the luv bug for Lesbia, but the delivery
> > communicates nothing of his passionate and confused helplessness,
> > particularly for these lines:
>
> > lingua sed torpet, tenuis sub artus
> > flamma demanat, sonitu suopte
> > tintinant aures, gemina teguntur
> > lumine nocte.
>
> > The linked audio gives these lines a very studied regard for the meter
> > but totally ignores stress, which surely in these lines is very
> > im****tant for expressing the poet's feelings. The art of Latin
> > recitation is the art of patting your head with the right hand, while
> > rubbing your tummy with the left hand, because it's not easy keeping
> > two different tasks going at the same time - which is my peculiar
> > metaphorical way of saying, it's im****tant to observe the metrical
> > lengths while also speaking expressively. That combination of tasks is
> > what makes the thing musical. This recitation doesn't quite manage it
> > - it's all beat and no melody. That's my personal opinion. However, I
> > have to admit, my own delivery seems to me to be inadequate as I often
> > begin rubbing both my head and my tummy, or patting both of them, if
> > you know what I mean. Maybe it was the same for the ancients and
> > recitation of classical verse was always a real skill that took years
> > to develop, as well as some natural talent, like that of an opera
> > star.
>
> This poem contains a phrase suitable for the boat-naming thread; "dulce
> ridentem". If we were to rewrite Catullus IV (song to a yacht
> (phaselus)) we might address it as "Dulce ridens qui ventos
> persequitur".
>
> It's a translation (or adaptation) of Sappho's most famous poem. Now,
> here's a paradox of the ancient world. All the lyric poets followed
> after and paid homage to Sappho, a woman. And they seem to have done it
> all rather ungrudgingly. Whether it was because she was good, or was
> lesbian, or was simply the first, we don't know.
>
> I confess that I read Latin hexameters to myself with complete and utter
> disregard for normal word pronunciation; just let the metre predominate
> everywhere. My "Arma virumque cano" can be accompanied with foot-taps;
> or foot up, foot down.
> And I tend to do the same with Catullus' hendecasyllables and Sapphics.
> I get the feel for the rhythm and then just stick to it, even though it
> mangles all normal word stress patterns.
>
> Your idea of reading this one with a kind of slaver running down the
> chin creates a problem for those who know it as the original property of
> Sappho. It conjures up a picture of lesbian love pushed beyond the
> limits of respectability. Which might have been ok if Sappho was
> Madonna-like in looks; rather than a fat and ugly dyke. Again, we don't
> know.
>
> Ed- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Ed, that's a great response and thanks for it. Unfortunately I don't
have any scraps of Sappho in my private library. Are they worth
owning? I hate a tease and if there are only a few scraps I'd rather
not read them or own them. I have some issues with a couple of things
you said:
First, just because the poem by Catullus is modelled on a love poem by
Sappho - this means it should be read without feeling? Why? Limits of
respectability? Respectable people don't write love songs with words
like that unless they are fully intent on ignoring social decorum as
far as possible.
Second, you seem to be taking a rather Cato-like view of emotional
demonstrations ('slaver'?!) The Romans were not all like Cato, as you
know, and a man about town like Catullus would certainly not put
himself in that camp! I take him at his word, as a man who wears his
heart on his sleeve (where exactly did Romans wear their hearts?), the
kind who would sleep on the doorstep of his mistress in view of all
passersby without shame, even if the pet pooch was allowed out for a
piss on the ****ch columns. In fact, I think most Romans were very
demonstrative. They seem to have loved emotive demonstrations in the
arts. What about the pantomime actor Pylades? That guy once fired
arrows into his audience during a performance of Hercules - while
Octavian was sitting there! During a performance of the same play,
when somebody in the audience complained loudly that the actor's
movements were extravagant, Pylades tore off his mask and shouted -
"I am representing a madman, you fools!" (I got that info here:http://
www.oldandsold.com/articles06/dance-2.shtml) If that was the social
and theatrical background in his own day, do you seriously think
Catullus would want his poetry recited in the aristocratic manner of a
Cato, without overt demonstrations of emotion?
Third, classical verse was modelled on song. In song, the accent
doesn't always coincide with the beat - unless we're talking rap, Bro.
The accent, cutting across the meter, must be an im****tant ingredient
in Latin poetry, and that necessarily means exaggerated expressions -
nobody sings in the flat manner of somebody reading a shopping list.
Anyhow, that's how I see it.
By the way, I think very highly of the guy who put the audio link out
there. I don't agree with the style of his delivery but the fact that
he did it at all is something that sets him apart. In some ways, he's
a bit like Catullus sleeping on the ****ch for anyone to poke fun at. I
just don't understand why he then opted for restraint - maybe it was
schooled into him.
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