Bob Cunningham wrote:
> On Wed, 20 Aug 2008 20:33:48 -0700, Hatunen <hatunen@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 20 Aug 2008 18:10:59 -0700, Bob Cunningham
>> <exw6sxq@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>
> [...]
>
>>> Googling on "refried beans" seems to come up with more statements
>>> that "refried" in "refried beans" means "fried twice" than with
>>> explanations of what really appears to be the true meaning, "fried
>>> well".
>>
>> All I can get by googling is that the beans are cooked twice:
>> boiled as beans normally are, then mashed up and fried.
>
> Okay, I see now that "cooked twice" is in several hits, at least
> implied, as a reason for the term "refried". I seem to have
> carelessly taken that to mean "fried twice".
>
> But it still seems to be true that the word "refried" doesn't come
> from the twice cooking, even with the first cooking not being
> frying. It does seem to be true that the "re-" is an intensifier,
> not a sign of repetition. When people use "cooked twice" in
> discussing refried beans, it seems likely that a lot of people will
> take it to mean fried twice.
>
> Interesting to see, two popular American desk dictionaries differ
> significantly in their definitions of "refried beans".
> _Merriam-Webster's 11th Collegiate Dictionary_ reflects the
> misconception
>
> beans cooked with seasonings, fried, then mashed and
> fried again.
>
> _Webster's New World College Dictionary_, in both the third and
> fourth editions, has the definition that we seem to have learned
> here to be the right one:
>
> a Mexican dish consisting of beans, especially pinto beans,
> that have been simmered till tender, then seasoned, mashed,
> and fried
>
>> According to http://www.spanishdict.com/translate/refritos,
>> refrito can mean either "over-fried (demasiado frito)" or
>> "re-fried (frito de nuevo)", which seems to mean newly fried,
>> which refritos are, after boiling.
>
> But I take "frito de nuevo" to mean "fried again".
>
> At http://www.wordreference.com/es/en/translation.asp?spen=de+nuevo
> there are a number of forums discussing, directly or indirectly, "de
> nuevo". One of them, from a native speaker of Spanish from
> Argentina, has the remark
>
> Pasámelo otra vez. ó
> Pasámelo de nuevo.
> El significado de esas dos frases es el mismo.
>
> But note that the Spanish dictionary you quote doesn't suggest that
> the definition of "refrito", "frito de nuevo", applies to refried
> beans:
>
> refrito
> adjective
> 1. over-fried (demasiado frito); re-fried (frito de nuevo)
>
> I take that to suggest that "refrito" can mean "demasiado frito"
> when applied to refried beans, but can also mean simply "fried
> again" in other contexts.
In our house, weekly, if not every-fourth-daily, the frijoles are
spiced and mashed _as they are being fried the first time_, if "fried"
means "cooking in a frying pan over a meaningful flame". This
ordinarily takes place well in advance of serving, which will not
occur until the juice has been reduced and the mix is approaching dry.
The frying pan of spiced and smashed beans will sit unflamed while
much of the remainder of a meal is prepared, then reheated for
serving.
We usually have at least two legumages (couldn't be "vintages", now,
could it?) of unspiced, unsmashed beans in the was:Refrigerator, and
could produce a useful single-stage set of spiced, smashed, and
refried beans without the day-long boil step. Which, /requires/ ****k
lard to even be initiated, a piece of ham bone, if possible, and a
whole spanish onion.
We also enjoy /frijoles rellenos/, or at least the joke, from a Viruta
y Capulina movie: two very poor men are discussing what will be their
supper. "What shall we have tonight?" "Frijoles rellenos". With some
pleasure and excitement: "Frijoles rellenos? Rellenos de que?" "De
gusanitos, mano. Somos repobres, ves?" ("With what filling?" 'Little
worms, bro. We are exceptionally poor, you see".
So in my apprehension, I see the "re-" part of "refritos" as a "very
much", rather than too-much, overdone, or once-again; maybe a little
in the vein of definition two from the Oxford Spanish Dictionary:
refrito1 -ta adjetivo
1 (Cocina) refried
2 versión/obra rehashed
--
Frank ess
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