On 2008-05-16, coffeymex@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
<coffeymex@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
> [Re-post of earlier message: didn't seem to get through the
> first time; apologies if it arrives several times.]
No duplicates here.
> So one possible generalisation that some linguistis consider
> is that the subjunctive is used in cases that "lack assertive
> force"[1], that is, where they don't so clearly 'assert' that
> something took place.
[massive snippage]
Thanks, that was enlightening. Seems to be a useful way of
thinking about the subjunctive.
Now, for the obligatory nitpicking :
> There are plenty of cases where "que", translated by 'that',
> is pretty much always followed by the subjunctive in French
> ("il a annoncé que...")
Valid point but bad example. Unless I've just become ga-ga,
"annoncer que" is never followed by the subjunctive. Elle a
annoncé que les carottes seraient cuites (conditional present).
Elle annonce que les carottes seront cuites (indicative future).
OK, here's an example that works : elle exige que les carottes
soient cuites (subjunctive present) -> she demands that the
carrots be cooked. Should have thought of that before posting,
sigh...
> - Le patron veut que Jean démissionne.
> - Oui, je sais.
>
> here, there's only one thing that "oui, je sais" can be acknowledging.
> It can something like "oui, je sais qu'il veut que..." but it wouldn't
> generally mean "oui, je sais que Jean va démissioné".
DémissionnER.
> - how to deal with similar-meaning pairs such as "souhaiter que..."/
> "espérer que" (actually not such a problem: many French speakers
> do actually say things like "j'espère que tu réussisse");
Ouch ! Do they really ? In any case, that's an example that
French learners would be well inspired *not* to follow.
--
André Majorel <URL:http://www.teaser.fr/~amajorel/>
"Cette supposition rappelle assez celle de ce prédicateur qui, en
pleine chaire, faisait remarquer à ses fidèles la bonté de Dieu qui
avait placé les rivières auprès des villes." -- Alexandre Dumas
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