"Terry" <Terry1156@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
news:6s0ih0dhmetlqm0le1b1rf0muoejj1jm91@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> On Tue, 10 Aug 2004 18:15:23 +0100, "Des Higgins"
> <dazzhiggins@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>
> >
> >"Terry" <Terry1156@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
> >news:1ishh0ltkthn6ub8jheu970cggclkueffg@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >> On Tue, 10 Aug 2004 16:59:10 +0100, "Des Higgins"
> >> <dazzhiggins@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
> >>
> >> >
> >> >"Terry" <Terry1156@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
> >> >news:qgphh0d20k6njk8sm5qvgco88k7r2nuups@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >> >> On Tue, 10 Aug 2004 14:32:52 +0100, "Des Higgins"
> >> >> <dazzhiggins@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> >
> >> >> >"1916" <kenn_gordon@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
> >> >> >news:vJ2Sc.78$To5.27@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >> >> >> Voices Of Resistance is a Weekly 2 hour Radio Show
> >> >> >> Broadcasting on the WWW at 10pm every wed
> >> >> >> you can listen to the show on www.paltalkradio.com
> >> >> >> or you can download the Paltalk Chat program by signing up for
free
> >at
> >> >> >> www.paltalk.com
> >> >> >> and then you can join us in the Virtual auditorium
> >> >> >> and also take part in the issues that are presented and have
your
> >say
> >> >> >> This is a republican show so the news is from that angle but it
is
> >NOT
> >> >> >just
> >> >> >> rhetoric
> >> >> >> with facts from all sides being presented
> >> >> >> the Music is republican and also the poetry of the now
legendary
> >Finn
> >> >> >Amadam
> >> >> >> if you download the program PALTALK and are having any problems
> >please
> >> >> >> contact me either via my email or using paltalk program by
adding
my
> >> >> >paltalk
> >> >> >> nick which is Ta ar la anois
> >> >> >> and I will do my best to help
> >> >> >> UNLIKE most of the Media coverage of NI we bring you the WHOLE
story
> >> >not
> >> >> >> just the Crown Version of events
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >> >I would though, if
> >> >> >you will allow be to be bold here, like to suggest that your
> >terminology
> >> >> >might be interpreted as reflecting a very slight bias towards one
side
> >of
> >> >> >this great problem unless you literally refer to what the UK
royal
> >family
> >> >> >think about the place.
> >> >>
> >> >> Far from it. The British Army are quite literally Crown Forces and
> >> >> proud of it.
> >> >
> >> >They certainly are but that is not what he said.
> >> >He said the "Crown Version" of events and I pointed out that this
was
a
> >way
> >> >of phrasing it
> >> >that reflected a bias that suggested he would not show the "WHOLE"
story.
> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >> That's why they're able to do things like show total contempt for
> >> >> Courts of Appeal, and retain murderers in their ranks when it
suits
> >> >> them.
> >> >
> >> >That is a tangent. They may or may not be able to do that but that
is
> >not
> >> >what we were talking about.
> >>
> >> You're never talking about things like that. Your approach to the
> >> North is one dimensional at best. It can only help to point out that
> >> there are other dimensions to the Northern problem than what the
> >> Cuddle Club focus almost exclusively upon.
> >> >
> >
> >Terry me ole pal; I never claimed to have any dimensions at all.
>
> I've identified one. It's a beginning.
>
> > My only
> >role in discussing NI here is to
> >point out the hypocrisy of others,
>
> Your only role is to point out what you think is the hypocrisy of
> nationalists. You don't bother very much with pointing out the
> hypocrisy of the British or Unionists.
>
Get me a unionist or Telegraph reader who wishes to defend internment,
Bloody Sunday, or criticise the role of the RoI government over the past
50
years of this mess and I will hound them too.
Google threads between me and Matthew Huntbach, Falcon, Gavin Bailey, John
Crawford, Concerned Ulsterman and others. Right now, you and others have
scared most of them off. Bailey and Huntbach and others have ironically,
in the past accused me of being republican.
Do you knwo how to dig up old threads. There are literally hundreds of
them
with me arguing against the above. With Huntbach it went on for about 3
years.
> The problem thiough is that if you only point out the hypocrisy of one
> group and leave the others alone then you actually sup****t them by
> ommission.
>
That does not have to follow. My enemies enemy is my friend??
I can criticise anyone I like on SCI, as can you.
> So unless you're going to point out everyones hypocrisy, it probably
> not a good idea to go down that road in the first place,
>
Life is too short. I can post what I like to who I like. There is no
time
to reply to every piece of ****e here.
I do not have the time you have.
> >especially those who claim to have the
> >"whole" story. Everyone (you, me,
> >the cuddle club, Tony O'Reilly) has simplistic notions of what will be
good
> >for NI. At least I admit it.
>
> Everyone has a political view of course. But that's not really what's
> going on here. What's going on is that some people are trying to drown
> out some political views and encourage others. That's what O Reailly
> tries to do. That's what the Cuddle Club tries to do.
And that is what you do and that is what Ray does and taht is what bfb
does
...... so what.
It goes in cycles. Right now I see very little uninist propaganda on SCI
and to be honest, if there is any, I no longer care. Using SCI as a
political vehicle is meaningless. Maybe MIchael Adams is right.
> >> >>
> >> >> It's fair enough I suppose if free staters like yourself are so
> >> >> determined to define your modernity by how much you like the
British
> >> >> and how many of them are your friends and I was there and it was
> >> >> lovely etc., but just don't confuse that with an adult
appreciation
of
> >> >> what's actually going on in the North.
> >> >
> >> >I do not like the British; I have not met all of them. I did live
there;
> >I
> >> >do have many British friends and I do object to simplistic
> >generalisations
> >> >that expect me to dislike them just because it suits a particular
> >propaganda
> >> >version of events.
> >>
> >> The point I was making to you is that liking or disliking individual
> >> British people has got nothing to do with it!
> >
> >So I should then automatically dislike them or what.
>
> What I'm saying to you is that whether you like any or all of them or
> not, has got nothing to do with anything.
If that is the case then why the **** did you bring it up. This is
surreal.
Of course it has nothing to do with anything.
>
> > This point is either
> >childishly meaningless or you have me here.
>
> Of course I have you. Southerners seem to think there is some special
> virtue in being nice to the British. They do it in a way that they
> wouldn't do to Americans for example. There's obviously some
> psychology thing at work there, and politically you've identified the
> old Ireland of anti-British feeling and the all new modern Ireland of
> pro-British feeling. Obvioulsy some of you think you're great fellas
> for being in teh latter category, so much so indeed that you've become
> incapable of criticisng the British no matter what they do. So again,
> just to be clear, pro or anti British is no part of it. That's just an
> ols southern legacy YOU have that for some reason you want to impose
> on teh North.
That is chilidsh knee jerk analysis. I am entitled to do as I please
regardiung how I percieve the UK as a whole or as individuals that I know.
It is moronic to criticise me for not hating the British somehow just as
it
would be moronic to simply love them all. This is shallow meaningless
silliness dressed up as pompous
political analysis. I lived in teh UK for a few years and enjoyed it.
While
there, I met some idiots who
accused me of makingh a mess of NI (me as an assumed Irish republican in
their eyes). Theye were idiots
just as the ones who were not idiots were not. You cannot generalise
beyond
that and attemptihng to do so is ridiculous.
>
> So what I'm saying to you again is don't impose that southern stuff on
> the North's political problems. It forms no part of them. Nobody cares
> whether anyone likes teh British or some British or no British. It's
> doesn't address the practical political problems we need to address.
Of course it does not. If this is true (and it is), then what in the name
of jayzes are you doing going on and on and on and on about it. YOu are
now
haveing an intense argument between yourself and an imagined part of me.
I
am entitled to say what the **** I like about NI seeing as if you have
your
political way, I will be faced with living in a united Ireland, for good
or
for bad.
>
> > I do not assume all British
> >people are good. I do not assume all are bad. I have never denied
that
> >some have committed barbaric acts in NI. The fact that I happen to
know
> >some British people and like them is a weird angle that you seem
desperate
> >to use to somehow invalidate any views that I may have
> >on NI.
>
> Anyone who ever uses the phrase evil Brit empire is trying to downplay
> very real political problems in the North.
>
Why did you say that to me?
Perhaps that phrase was used to parody what you write.
If so, it is quite funny.
I do not recall using it however.
> The British are totally unaccounable in the North and anyone in that
> position can do all sorts of things. Don't respond to the genuine
> complaints that people in teh North have, by trying to pretend that
> those nice British people wouldn't do whatever it was was claimed
>
In NI, genuine complaints (and there are many) get swamped in teh
propaganda
war.
Also don't ask me to believe shallow republican propaganda just because
there are also genuine complaints.
> >>
> >> The only thing it has to do with anything is that people like you are
> >> always pretending that it's got something to do with it. The issue of
> >> liking or disliking the British is a purely southern phenomenon,
which
> >> you use a a metric to define how modern you are. And of course the
> >> problem with that sort of baby politics is that you work yourself
into
> >> a state where you can never criticise British actions in the North at
> >> all.
> >
> >I do not like the British. How could I? I have only met a few hundred.
> >What planet are you from?
> >You dragged up this nonesense. I have never used whether or not I had
any
> >British friends
> >to justify anything. You are trying to do this.
>
> Have you ever used the phrase evil Brit empire etc?
>
Read this very very very slowly. I will write my anwer in short words and
will use simple grammar and punctuation:
NO!
> Have you ever tried to downplay genuine complaints in the North by
> pointing out that some British were nice or that the IRA did something
> similar. As if that meant something to a victim of the British Army.
> >>
> >> What you don't seem to appreciate is that politics is about
structures
> >> and accountability, not about whether you like people or not. The
> >> British who run the North aren't accountable to the people who live
> >> there, not to the electorate nor to the media. That's a political
> >> problem, and one that needs to be dealt with.
> >>
> >
> >This is a further tangent.
> >You are now just turning this into a Free Stater versus the true
patriotic
> >downtrodden NIer thread.
>
> What I'm saying is that there are those in the South who exemplify
> the Free state tradition and they exist in all parties. That's an
> idenifiable fact.
>
> Of course it depends on how successful you free staters are at
> converting any last vestiges of republicanism in the South to your way
> of thinking, whether or not "true patriotic downtrodden NIer", seems
> just irony or an accurate description of the facts
>
My views on how southerners view NI are a simple reaction to the equally
prevalent simplistic republican view from other southereners that all NI
needs is to kick the brits out. I am entitlked to my views just as you
are
and trying to label me as a Free Stater is as childish as what I called
you
above.,
> >> So what I'm saying is don't distract from real political problems
with
> >> childish baby talk.
> >>
> >
> >This thread started with one poster making a surreal claim to telling
the
> >whole story which I called him up on.
> >You have then turned this intoa grand cuddle club/Tony O'Reilly/All
> >southerners/Free Staters/"people like you" conspiracy to be nasty to
the
> >true downtrodden sons of Erin.
>
> So let's unpack it then.
>
> It's obvious that Tony O Reilly presents a perverted and destabilising
> extreme Unionist view of the North. Unionists and Free Staters have
> that in common.
>
> The Cuddle Club do the same thing.
And so do YOU!!
We are all at it.
>
> What are you disagreeing with?
>
> I'm sure most Irish and indeed British don't do the above.
>
> >
> >> > I certainly do not understand all of what is happening
> >> >in NI,
> >>
> >> I know you don't. You don't even understand politics more generally.
> >
> >I think what you are trying to say is that you have an intense dislike
of
> >what politics I do have.
> >Whether or not I understand politics or you do is a different point.
>
> It could be a different point, but in this case it's not a different
> point.
>
This is meaningless.
> Your political expression on the North is so childish that it's
> difficult to work out what your politics actually are, never mind get
> round to liking or disking them.
>
Why dont you ask me instead of inventing what you think my views are.
> So when I say that your political approach is childish, that's what I
> mean.
>
> > To be
> >honest, the only things I have
> >ever seen you describe in political terms were simplistic childish
stuff
you
> >learned off by rote full of
> >big words and meaning absolutely nothing whatsoever.
>
> I know you don't mean that. I can almost see your lower chin quivering
> in desperation at the lies your now having to tell to defend yourself.
>
You have me here alright.
Terry; what is the point of all this?
You love meaningless meandering arguments that never go anywhere and
cannot
go anywhere.
That is fair enough as a hobby but you seem to take yourself very
seriously
when you do it.
> >> >but then judging by the simplistic propaganda that you trot out,
> >> >nether do you.
> >>
> >> What propaganda are you talking about?
> >
> >To begin with, the idea that the provos are interested in environmental
> >issues.
> >
> >>
> >> I've had discussions with Cuddle Clubbers and exposed the very nasty
> >> politics that they represent.
> >
> >That is childish and simplistic.
> >
> >>
> >> Other than that I talk about structures and accountability.
> >>
> >
> >YOU talk bollox dressed up as something big and deep.
>
> I talk about real political structures that people like you have had
> created for you by previous generations.
>
> It maybe that that makes you so childish
>
This is conspiracy nonesense. I vote for politicians just like you.
The rest is silliness.
>
>
>
|
