On Jul 19, 4:54=A0pm, mcja...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
> On Jul 18, 11:55=A0am, Alexm <amcwill...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>
> > On Jul 18, 2:24=A0am, mcja...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
>
> > > > > I saw something interesting about a grid pair puzzle problem
that
> > > > > might be interesting.
> > > > > it's the problem where in a grid any size you say so many that
ar=
e
> > > > > pairs.
> > > > > |1a|2a|3a|
> > > > > |2b|1a|3b|
> > > > > |4a|4b|5a|
> > > > > |6a|5b|6b|
> > > > > to make one move is to make the other of the pair move at the
sam=
e
> > > > > time, but to solve where it can move first is to figure out
every=
way
> > > > > it can be solved until you know the last one to move where the
fi=
rst
> > > > > one chosen to move comes from. a recursive problem said
usuallly.=
the
> > > > > pairs switch each move.
> > > > > if I figure each to be able to move with all involved in moving,
=
and
> > > > > for each they overlap the involved pieces that have to move. so
i=
f
> > > > > you
> > > > > draw somehow how each can be solved with all that have to move
> > > > > together where you say together with how you can solve the other
=
ones
> > > > > the way where each that solves a way is together but all that
sol=
ve
> > > > > are together with how they solve it makes what looks like a
machi=
ne
> > > > > that can move.
> > > > > so if I pick one to move how it can be solved to move and draw
ho=
w it
> > > > > looks now by seeing how they solve now, it looks like if this
wer=
e a
> > > > > machine the entire machine has been rearranged where if you pick
=
one
> > > > > to move as the part of the machine to move, the whole machine is
> > > > > moved
> > > > > to where that part of the machine moved. that's to draw how they
> > > > > solve
> > > > > again.
> > > > > it seems to be able to make a whole machine said with pairs on a
> > > > > board
> > > > > move to any position the whole machine can be in for any part of
=
the
> > > > > machine moved. like, it seems to solve a whole machine .
> > > > > so figure a machine out of these pairs to be a machine that
works=
,
> > > > > see
> > > > > it in how the ones that solve overlap the other ones that solve
t=
o
> > > > > use
> > > > > the same involved in how any can move.
> > > > > see it in how it draws again, it's the whole machine moved if
one=
is
> > > > > moved where it would be for that part of the machine moved.
> > > > > like, it seems to make the whole machine say it's been running
fo=
r a
> > > > > while.
> > > > > it looks like pairs in a grid can say any machine the way they
ca=
n be
> > > > > arranged, like each one that solves a way uses the same pieces
as=
the
> > > > > others that solve a way, so it looks togther as how they solve
as
> > > > > pieces together and other pieces together, together with
eachothe=
r.
> > > > > and to move one that solves any way that it does is to see all
ov=
er
> > > > > again how they solve together a new way, and it looks like the
wh=
ole
> > > > > machine has moved the way it is to move where only the part of
th=
e
> > > > > machine you want moves.
> > > > > it seems like any machine that can express a problem to solve
can=
be
> > > > > said with pairs, where the machine hasn't moved yet but is in
> > > > > original
> > > > > position, but then in a completely different position it can be
i=
n,
> > > > > just be moving one that solves. sticking with how they
rearranged=
and
> > > > > moving them again always is the same part of the machine, for
the
> > > > > rest
> > > > > to be different the way they solve but as the rest of the
machine=
the
> > > > > way it's moved connected the part moved.
> > > > > can anyone back up how this seems to work?
> > > > it looks like a machine when you find each that work out the way
it
> > > > does and say with all the others that work out the way they do
> > > > together overlapping common pieces but say connected each working
o=
ut
> > > > as connected, but together as connected it's connected with the
oth=
ers
> > > > connected. a whole machine where connected together is a condition
=
of
> > > > the machine together as complimentary of what is said for what is
s=
aid
> > > > about where the machine is at. the way where a loop in the machine
=
is
> > > > what won't loop on it's own unless the whole machine's set
position=
is
> > > > where that loop can move on it's own. a set of pairs that work out
> > > > together as sets in different sizes say conditioned together like
> > > > where for what matters is for what matters together as what
matters
> > > > for eachother. it's hard to recognize it as a machine unless you
se=
e
> > > > that. what's together as pairs that work out together are like the
> > > > idea of for what matters is for what matters as where the machine
i=
s
> > > > at. so machine input is what matters for machine output. always
> > > > machine input that makes difference of output is pairs that work
ou=
t
> > > > together. machine beginning and machine ending. to see as machine
i=
s
> > > > a machine to turns back around to beginning if it were to operate
a=
s a
> > > > machine. very im****tant is trying to recognize it as a machine,
> > > > because it's hard to see. so if you move pairs that work out
togeth=
er
> > > > as any way they can move, see all over again the way they work out
=
and
> > > > how they share pairs that work out another way too. how to see it
a=
s
> > > > the same machine again will be flipped around but try in different
> > > > ways. any machine can be said with pairs. because with pairs you
ca=
n
> > > > also say this, given how they can be setup, a way for them to be
wh=
ere
> > > > any much of them saying they work out a way can say different in
an=
y
> > > > way for how other pairs work out, and how other pairs are
arranged.
> > > > any machine always has it so the bigger part of the machine that
mo=
ves
> > > > any way it can p***** all the movment it can have to a smaller
part=
..
> > > > so the smaller part moved any way makes the bigger part move ways.
> > > > because of what any condition can be.
> > > > the moving pairs problem i can't find a webpage for. it's where on
=
a
> > > > board you setup pairs in any way (but saying a machine that works)
> > > > like where
> > > > |1|1|2|2|
> > > > |3|4|3|4|
> > > > |5|5|6|6|
> > > > |7|8|8|7|
> > > > and each number the same is a pair, now see pair move, each number
> > > > moves together at the same time with the other. there's one answer
> > > > there can be, but a recursive problem usually to find it. it's
wher=
e
> > > > that pair can move where it can, but it can because the outcome
kno=
wn
> > > > for where the last pair moves to where the first pair left. but
the
> > > > pairs switch each move with where they go, to be not the same pair
=
but
> > > > a different pair as paired with where each can go to be pairs with
> > > > what left where it can go.
> > > > so
> > > > |1|1|
> > > > |2|2| -> 2 and 2 is 2 and 1, and 1 and 1 is 2 and 1 the other way.
> > > > pick any and the same but another way. make moved and try again,
it
> > > > turns around. the machine idea of it is at beginning then ending,
t=
hen
> > > > beginning again. because that's all this machine does.
> > > > make me look better about this?
> > > > it is a machine. see how. see how setup bigger they figure to work
=
out
> > > > one way for each pair, and each other pair, they do. so see how
eac=
h
> > > > pair you figure can work out has the same pairs as how others work
> > > > out. they do.
> > > > so draw, draw it so they work out together and others that work
out
> > > > together are showing how any pair works out the way it does as
> > > > together, togther with other pairs that work out together, as one
> > > > thing together. one thing together where any pair that works out
wi=
th
> > > > other pairs the way it can move is together with other pairs that
c=
an
> > > > work out together as together itself, but together with the other
> > > > pairs overlapping the same pairs that work out the other way.
> > > > altogether though.
> > > > now see as a machine. a machine that can work, like any machine. a
> > > > machine that starts and begins again where it started. it is a
> > > > machine. it's any machine you want depending on how you setup the
> > > > pairs. find a pair that can move and move it, see how it's a
machin=
e
> > > > again another way. it is. see what it is? it's the whole machine
> > > > another way. where a part of the machine moved, the whole machine
> > > > moved like where that part moved the way it did. it does.
> > > > a machine like this shows connected conditions, conditions that
> > > > compliment machine position together. not like seeing a loop
inside=
a
> > > > loop be it's own, but together.
> > > > it's a whole machine, any machine. where a machine is said like it
=
can
> > > > be any other way it can be. it's a machine that looks like a
machin=
e
> > > > when you see how for what matters is for what matters, because
it's
> > > > like beginning matters for end as pairs that work out together,
not
> > > > like next machine position is with next machine position, that's
no=
t a
> > > > machine you see that way.
> > > > try making a machine where you see pairs work out together and
othe=
rs
> > > > that do, the pairs that work out together are there like loop that
> > > > begins is together with where the loop ends because it's a whole
> > > > machine. a whole machine that altogether has one position to be
in,
> > > > one position altogether. a machine like any. it's true.
> > > > draw pairs as a machine, but see it be a machine. because it's a
> > > > machine like it is. see it all over again when you move pairs
toget=
her
> > > > and see it all again, but now see it as whole machine in a
differen=
t
> > > > position, all of it is, because that's the part of the machine
that
> > > > makes the rest of the machine where it can be for that part of the
> > > > machine. it's not like moving the machine one step, it's like
movin=
g
> > > > it altogether in one place, so try an easy place to move pairs
wher=
e
> > > > it's at the part of the machine that shows easy how the rest of
the
> > > > machine should be. it's the whole machine when you move that part
> > > > where that part is moved that looks different, it's the whole
machi=
ne
> > > > set position. set position inbetween where it works, for the rest
t=
o
> > > > be in position different to how that position is set.
> > > > see so carefully as whole machine again, the same machine, but
> > > > different altogether, because it's altogether set in a different
> > > > position. like a machine that's been operated until it gets there,
=
the
> > > > position it's in now.
> > > > it is, but careful to see as the same machine. because it's all
> > > > different. pairs together are connected conditions, togther as all
> > > > pairs together is all connected conditions together with connected
> > > > conditions that are connected. you see beginning and ending
connect=
ed,
> > > > and inbetweens the way they are. pairs say any machine, they do.
> > > > try
> > > > make pairs visible as a machine, you see, any way pairs are is for
=
the
> > > > way the machine works. a real machine though, a machine that can
be
> > > > any machine, so see pairs together as how they work with pairs
> > > > together as how they work together as what looks like what a
machin=
e
> > > > can be. a machine can stop in the middle and go back to the
beginni=
ng,
> > > > see it like that. but sometimes not with where it gets to. so see
> > > > machine that anywhere can say go backwards, or anywhere before can
=
be
> > > > read more =BB- Hide quoted text -
> > > > - Show quoted text -...
>
> > > so say this as a test:
>
> > > setup a board of moving pairs, find for each pair how it works out
to
> > > be how it can move. say those togther, and the others together
> > > connected as what would take a 3 dimentional diagram to see. For
each
> > > way you can move a pair, hold the idea of the same pairs together
and
> > > try every position they can be in. Doesn't this look like a machine
> > > not makine one move, but showing how it's in a completely different
> > > position like after having been operating for a while?
>
> > > it seems to cheat how a machine can work.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > Moving pairs of what? =A0For example, pairs of physical objects which
> > cannot overlap or, at the other extreme, pairs of mathematical
> > points? =A0Or is the board itself divided into parts which can be
calle=
d
> > pairs?
>
> > AlexM
>
> pairs where you can say are setup like this (too I guess):
>
> a pair, just said to be, where to move one of them you have to move
> the other of the pair too.
> so a pair, to move, each of the pair moves to each of another pair, a
> same pair together.
> the pair moves to the other pair, at the same time the pair it moves
> to moves to another pair.
> so the pair moves to another pair, and the first pair is no longer a
> pair together, and the pair moved to is no longer a pair together,
> they became not pairs anymore but two new pairs. with each of the pair
> being a new pair with where it moved to. the other of the pair with
> where it moved to is having the same happen at the same time, so it's
> with a new pair to.
>
> so to say what it looks like... given lots setup, a group of pairs
> that reorganize how they are paired for each move they can make. they
> go around as the pairs many ways but can get back to pairs the same
> way at first.
>
> so pairs are said to be on a board, but to say pairs and where they
> move to is like working out already the problem they are with figuring
> out how they move.
so the pairs are like where they can move past each other to where
they're getting to, but just said so as pairs are what has to move at
the same time where they move to, to another pair together as the only
way it works to move back around. so each of the pair goes to each in
another pair. now each pair is not a pair together anymore but are two
new pairs, like if one in the pair went it's pair with what leaves
where it goes, same as the other. to leave is to go where that pair is
going to another pair. so if you think any time when it's moving
around there can never be where a pair is not moving to become another
pair, or when a pair is staying and nothing is coming. so it's like a
circuit of pairs that move to reoganize have to all the way for any
one move.
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