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Re: Dimini****ng Returns in Game Engineering

by Anton <anton.txt@[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Jun 19, 2008 at 09:12 PM

AngleWyrm:

> I've added a section so that it is quite clear why, called 
> Double-Implementation
> http://home.comcast.net/~anglewyrm/dimini****ng_returns.htm

Hello, AngleWyrm.

  I don't think your argumentation is  correct.  What  you  have
  called the top (repeating) implementation is  indeed  used  to
  create this rare/common disbalance, to make outstanding things
  rare. A great example is Battle Isle, where units' skill level
  grew slower as they became more experienced.

  You can come to this conclusion if you  assume  experience  is
  pro****tional to the time spent in action  and  that  achieving
  each next  skill  level  requires  more  experience  that  the
  previous one. If you're twice more experienced than I,  you're
  only one step more skilled (not twice as skilled).

  This is kind of a logarithm, Skill = log(Experience).

  And know what? This has been sup****ted by the  best  judge  --
  the reality: WWII stats show that newbie soldiers who survived
  their very first  battle  had  5-10  times  higher  chence  to
  survive in the future than complete newbies. So, the growth of
  Skill is fast in the beginning and slows down considerably  at
  higher levels. Logarithm behaves just like this!

  Now, back to the number-of-stats problem. You  say  increasing
  this number does just the same. But using your assumtion about
  multiplication of stats (which I don't find correct...) I have
  come to an opposite conclusion.

  Let's  assume  the  stats  grow  linearly  (without  loss   of
  generality, as long as  they're  sufficiently  correlated  and
  therefore change  at  approximately  the  same  rate,  as  you
  assume):

  x = 0.1, x^3 = 0.001
  x = 0.2, x^3 = 0.008 (+0.007)
  x = 0.3, x^3 = 0.027 (+0.019)
  ...
  x = 1,   x^3 = 1; 
  x = 2,   x^3 = 8;  (+7)
  x = 3,   x^3 = 27; (+19)

  As you see, the derivative only increases,  meaning  that  the
  more outstanding characteristics will be even more likely than
  modest ones, which is actually disgusting  to  nature.  Is  it
  possible that your stats  improve  quicker  and  quicker  with
  time, without a limit? This prevents the model from converging
  and makes it unstable: initially a  little  bit  more  skilled
  units will quickly develop so  emormously  an  advantage  over
  those that initially were just a tiny little bit weakier, that
  less and less units will make sence (0.0001 against  10000  is
  nothing, right). And will be a self-accelerating  process,  so
  the game will be reduced  to  race  for  experience,  and  the
  winner will be known quite early...

  As for scaling that you  say  doesn't  effect  things,  you're
  again not right. Number one is "the turning point" for the X^N
  function. Plot the same graphs for values from 0 to 50 and see
  the difference ;)

  ... If we stick to the scale [0,1]  --  things  won't  be  any
  better: Near pont point one the skill gaining  speed  makes  a
  leap and significally increases. Why? In reality I  don't  see
  no  reason  for  it,  so  such  a  model  would  be  at  least
  unrealisic, and at most -- not playable.

Anton
 




 31 Posts in Topic:
Diminishing Returns in Game Engineering
"AngleWyrm" <  2008-06-07 22:50:12 
Re: Diminishing Returns in Game Engineering
John Nagle <nagle@[EMA  2008-06-08 23:51:42 
Re: Diminishing Returns in Game Engineering
"AngleWyrm" <  2008-06-09 14:17:43 
Re: Diminishing Returns in Game Engineering
Geoffrey Summerhayes <  2008-06-10 11:59:36 
Re: Diminishing Returns in Game Engineering
"AngleWyrm" <  2008-06-11 21:04:03 
Re: Diminishing Returns in Game Engineering
nathan@[EMAIL PROTECTED]   2008-06-11 23:37:21 
Re: Diminishing Returns in Game Engineering
"AngleWyrm" <  2008-06-12 22:37:04 
Re: Diminishing Returns in Game Engineering
Russ Whiteman <russw99  2008-06-13 02:55:20 
Re: Diminishing Returns in Game Engineering
"AngleWyrm" <  2008-06-13 04:18:53 
Re: Diminishing Returns in Game Engineering
Geoffrey Summerhayes <  2008-06-13 10:06:57 
Re: Diminishing Returns in Game Engineering
"AngleWyrm" <  2008-06-14 02:03:57 
Re: Diminishing Returns in Game Engineering
Mike <m.fee@[EMAIL PRO  2008-06-16 11:06:41 
Re: Diminishing Returns in Game Engineering
Geoffrey Summerhayes <  2008-06-14 22:29:39 
Re: Diminishing Returns in Game Engineering
"AngleWyrm" <  2008-06-15 04:50:17 
Re: Diminishing Returns in Game Engineering
Miss Elaine Eos <Misc@  2008-06-15 07:56:54 
Re: Diminishing Returns in Game Engineering
"AngleWyrm" <  2008-06-15 15:34:08 
Re: Diminishing Returns in Game Engineering
nathan@[EMAIL PROTECTED]   2008-06-15 21:21:39 
Re: Diminishing Returns in Game Engineering
"AngleWyrm" <  2008-06-15 21:29:18 
Re: Diminishing Returns in Game Engineering
Geoffrey Summerhayes <  2008-06-16 13:46:40 
Re: Diminishing Returns in Game Engineering
"AngleWyrm" <  2008-06-18 00:14:44 
Re: Diminishing Returns in Game Engineering
Anton <anton.txt@[EMAI  2008-06-19 21:12:22 
Re: Diminishing Returns in Game Engineering
"AngleWyrm" <  2008-06-21 00:58:42 
Re: Diminishing Returns in Game Engineering
Anton <anton.txt@[EMAI  2008-06-21 16:00:14 
Re: Diminishing Returns in Game Engineering
"AngleWyrm" <  2008-06-21 18:02:32 
Re: Diminishing Returns in Game Engineering
Anton <anton.txt@[EMAI  2008-06-22 10:55:12 
Re: Diminishing Returns in Game Engineering
"AngleWyrm" <  2008-06-22 17:31:17 
Re: Diminishing Returns in Game Engineering
Anton <anton.txt@[EMAI  2008-06-24 19:04:52 
Re: Diminishing Returns in Game Engineering
"AngleWyrm" <  2008-06-25 18:40:13 
Re: Diminishing Returns in Game Engineering
Geoffrey Summerhayes <  2008-06-21 17:58:28 
Re: Diminishing Returns in Game Engineering
gsx <o.xhani@[EMAIL PR  2008-06-22 05:15:05 
Re: Diminishing Returns in Game Engineering
gsx <o.xhani@[EMAIL PR  2008-06-22 05:19:38 

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