On May 6, 8:41=A0am, "Donna Metler" <dmmet...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
> "Werner" <whetz...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
>
> news:8de4f33e-f10b-490f-b281-773ddf1b7ba2@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> On May 5, 11:49 pm, Bob LeChevalier <loj...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
> The only thing tenure does is mean that before you can fire someone, you
> have to show cause. That can be as simple as, in October, =A0calling the
> teacher into your office and saying "here's where we see deficiencies.
Her=
e
> is where you need to improve". And guess what? This evaluation cycle is
> already part of an administrator's job.
=46rom what I know of administrators I doubt whether they would be
competent to
judge if a teacher is really doing a good job. This really could only
be determined
by direct observation of the teacher at work.
Students not improving? Perhaps they are a group of losers on which
noone
can make an impression?
>We had a teacher who had a degree in chemistry
> and had taken a teaching job her first year out of college as a stop-gap
> measure. She was already on an improvement plan (and since she was
> non-tenured, the requirement for non-renewal was very weak) when she was
> offered a dream job in January. Despite steps already being taken to get
r=
id
> of her, she still had to "buy out" her remaining contract in order to
take=
> the job she'd wanted in the first place.
This doesn't ring true. Certainly a teacher who wants out could
easily
get himself/herself fired? e.g. call the principal a "#&#* moron".
Deliberately flunk all her students? Call them morons in class? Use
the
"N" word? Insult Christians? etc. etc.
>
> ---
> Let's see- 7:00-3:00, with students from 7:15-2:45, plus meetings after
> school at least one day a week. That doesn't sound like a 5-6 hour day
to
> me. And that's what the contract hours in my last full-time teaching
> position were.
Plus class preparation time, grading papers, homework, and exams,
etc...
They certainly earn their pay.
> Yes, there are a lot of days when schools are closed, but saying that
> teachers have lots of vacation is like saying that construction workers
ha=
ve
> lots of vacation because they usually don't do much during the winter.
> Rather, both jobs have periods of known unemployment, for which there is
n=
o
> income coming in.
They get paid a fixed salary for a year of teaching. I get paid a
fixed salary for a year
of work. But I don't get two+ months off in the summer. If you want
to argue that
their salary is too low and gets "diluted" by the two months they
have off, fine. But they
still have employment for a year at a fixed salary with a LOT of
vacation. And, as pointed
out, can choose to be paid over 12 months instead of 10.
And:
for teachers, since summer unemployment is known in advance, they can
take
other jobs during that time to fill the gap. Or they can teach summer
school.
A lot of other people on full salaried jobs are *precluded* from
taking a second job.
> This teacher could care less from a personal standpoint. The number of
kid=
s
> is pretty much fixed, as is the number of teaching jobs needed. In fact,
> since I'm a music specialist, and it's typical to hire one per school,
the=
<snip>
> That is, private schools truly are Lake Woebegon, where all children are
> above average. Vouchers will do one of two things. Either it will
accelera=
te
> this affect, because if private schools are allowed to keep their
admissio=
ns
> criteria, they'll =A0then be able to just take the top, say, 20% instead
o=
f
> the top 40%, or they'll lose many of the reasons parents want to send
them=
> there.
Yep!!!!! And as for "allowed to keep", I don't see how they can be
prohibited
from having such criteria.
> We have expensive and lousy schools. Why does that not bother you?
In many cases the "lousy schools" are a result of "lousy students with
bad attitudes"
and "indifferent parents". One can't teach someone who is not
interested in learning
and I say we should stop trying.
The truly handicapped student is an exception of course.
> > I have no interest in paying for someone to go to religious school. I
> > got a good public school education and so did my kids. Those who want
> > something else can find the money themselves.
>
> I have no interest in paying for expensive lousy schools.
Then pass some legislation that will motivate students.
Too many problems in today's schools arise because of lack of
motivation on the part of the students.
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