Re: Vouchers lost in court, deserve no new chance

Bob LeChevalier wrote:
malcolmkirkpatrick wrote:
Pubkeybreaker wrote:

(someone): "That is, private schools truly are Lake Woebegon, where
all children are above average.Voucherswill do one of two things.
Either it will accelerate this affect, because if private schools are
allowed to keep their admissions criteria, they'll =A0then be able to
just take the top, say, 20% instead of the top 40%, or they'll lose
many of the reasons parents want to send them there.

(MK): "Flat false. Some independent schools today specialize in the
care of severe sp-ed students."
(Bob): "And operate primarily as government contractors to collect
the
government funding, so they aren't really "independent schools".

The issue isn't he meaning of "real independence" but a matter of
fact: will schools outside the NEA/AFT/AFSCME cartel accept low-
performing students. The factual answer is "yes". Many do.

(MK): "Why not suppose that schools would specialize in various
dimensions (curriculum, theory of learning, religion, etc)?"
(Bob); "Because the existing private school marketplace doesn't."

The existing distributin of schools, by type, reflects the existing
legal and financial environment.

(MK): "Likely, unless regulations impose uniformity, you'll see
increasing
product differentation."
(Bob): "Reality proves you wrong."

Been to a grocery store, lately? A shoe store? It's centralized
bureaucracies which impose uniformity.

(Bob): "No regulations compelled all 50 states to end up with school
systems
having 12 grades and kindergarten, more or less similar curricula. =A0No
regulations compelled the Catholic schools to adopt curricula that are
quite similar to those of the public schools."

Not directly. Compulsory arttendance laws and the policy which
restricts parents' options to schools operated by State (government,
generally) employees created a dominant player (the NEA/AFT/AFSCME
cartel's schools). State-chartered agencies (accreditation agencies)
mandate curricula. The State-dominated post-secondary education market
sets admission criteria and Education major degree requirements. State
chartered teacher standards boards set teacher credential
requirements.

(MK): "Why suppose that schools will turn away poor performers?"
(Bob): "It isn't as lucrative and it is harder to achieve "success"
which is a  significant marketing trait."

Yet, in Hong Kong and Ireland, about 90% of students take government
subsidies to independent or parochial schools. In the Netherlands,
close to 70%.

(MK): "Some schools would specialize in enhancing these."
(Bob): "Reality says that very few do so."

In the US, in the current US legal and financial environment.

(MK): "Most grocery stores allow incompetent cooks to buy steak to
take home and burn."
(Bob): "Very few grocery stores specialize in teaching incompetent
cooks how
to cook a steak properly."

The point is, schools in a voucher environment can make money dealing
with low-performing students as well as academic stars. Just as
grocery stores can make money selling to incompetent cooks and expert
cooks.

(Bob): "Ever heard of the 14th amendment "equal protection under the
law"?
(MK): " 'Equal protection' considerations currently do not bar
selective
government schools (Stuyvesant High, Bronx Science), so it's unlikely
that they'd apply to independent schools in a voucher regime."
(BOB): "Reality (as implemented in Milwaukee) says that you are
wrong."

Bronx Science and Stuyvesant were still in operation, last I heard.
=A0

(Bob): "All they have to do is say that a school must meet certain
conditions to be eligible forvouchers. =A0One of those conditions could
be non-restrictive admissions."
(MK): "That's one way to kill a voucher program."
(Bob): "Milwaukee seems to be surviving."

LeChevalier claims to know a bit about logic, but it doesn't show.
"One way to kill" doesn't mean "inevitably must kill". Arsenic is one
way to kill. Arsenic in small doses doesn't inevitably kill.

(Bob): "There are school qualifications in the Milwaukee voucher
program."
(MK): "Which make the results of the Milwaukee program only marginally
applicable to estimates of a competitive market in education services.
(Bob): "The Milwaukee program is likely to be a model (maybe the
primary
model) if any other place set up vouchers."

How "likely" we will have to wait and see.