Talk About Network

Google


Register and Login
Nick
Password
Register create new account Sign up is FREE and you can post replies, new topics, bookmark posts and more!
Recover lost password


Education > Statistics > help with thoug...
Latest [ Topics | Posts ] Archive Post A New Topic Post a Reply
<< Topic < Post Post 1 of 11 Topic 3412 of 3545
Post > Topic >>

help with thoughts about the chi square test of independence

by jenmoocat <sollje2002@[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Mar 29, 2008 at 06:54 PM

Hello all.
I hope some of you can shed some light on a problem I am having.
I do have a stats degree, but I got it over 15 years ago.
I've used the web to try to research this idea, but I don't really see
it addressed....


I was tasked with creating an audit function.
Part of a process flow is to randomly assign customers to one of two
groups.
We want to make sure that the customers in group 1 look like the
customers in group 2.
I thought that a chi-square test of independence could be a way to do
this.

I chose a couple of factors that define our customers:  age, tenure,
risk-score (for example).
I then perform the chi-square test of independence on each factor
separately.
In each case, I am essentially posing the null hypothesis that the
factor is independent of group member****p:
age is unrelated to group member****p, tenure is independent of group
member****p, etc...
In my thinking, if the null hypothesis is true along all of the
factors of im****tance, then the two groups have truly been populated
randomly.

In the actual mechanics of the test, I have tens of thousands (if not
hundreds of thousands) of observations.
I then bin the factor --- break age down into 9 groups for example:
under 18
18 to 25
25 to 35
etc....

In that way I then get two distributions:  the distribution of group 1
by age and the distribution of group 2 by age.
I have read in the statistics literature that, because the chi-square
test by nature is sensitive to sample size, the significance level of
such a test should be something like 0.01, rather than the more common
0.05.

So I perform my test on the independence of age and group member****p.
I graph the two histograms together, so I can get a visual aid. And I
also calculate the chi-square statistic...

And I have found that even small differences will cause the null
hypothesis to be rejected.

In the data below, if you graph the two histograms together, they line
up very closely.
The data, eyeballed, looks as if age is independent from group
member****p.
However, the calculated chi-square stat is 46, compared to the
critical value of 21 for 9 degrees of freedom and a significance level
of 0.01.   The p-value is miniscule.  I intrepret this to be the
probability of the calculated chi-square stat (or seeing these two
histograms) if the null hypothesis of independence were true, is very
tiny.

age	group 1	group 2
1	86	77
2	415	440
3	1,559	1,577
4	5,810	5,751
5	22,450	22,000
6	26,182	26,182
7	16,947	16,947
8	5,336	6,000
9	184	168
10	8	11

My bosses think that the test is not good at these high numbers and
are thinking about scrapping it.

My question, I guess, are these:
Can the chi-square test of independence really be used in this
situation?  Is there too much N?
What if we were interested not in the tail of the chi-square
distribution, not in whether the differences between the two histogram
was over some threshold, but at some measure of sameness.

My bosses are proposing something like this:
If the two histograms were very nearly equal, the calculated chi-
square statistic would be small.
Shouldn't we then test, for example, whether the calculated chi-square
stat is less than the mean of the chi-square distribution (the degrees
of freedom), instead of whether it is greater than the critical
value?  Testing that the two distributions are similar, rather than
the degree to which they are different.

As I said above, I do have a stats degree, but I got it over 15 years
ago.
I've used the web to try to research this idea, but I don't really see
it addressed....

Can someone with more knowledge help me?
Is what my bosses are proposing the right thing to do?
It feels wrong somehow, but I don't know how to talk about it.

Thanks and insight would be much appreciated.

-jennifer
 




 11 Posts in Topic:
help with thoughts about the chi square test of independence
jenmoocat <sollje2002@  2008-03-29 18:54:38 
Re: help with thoughts about the chi square test of independence
"Phil Holman" &  2008-03-29 22:13:14 
Re: help with thoughts about the chi square test of independence
jenmoocat <sollje2002@  2008-03-30 00:22:05 
Re: help with thoughts about the chi square test of independence
Paul Rubin <rubin@[EMA  2008-03-30 15:24:42 
Re: help with thoughts about the chi square test of independence
Richard Ulrich <Rich.U  2008-03-30 21:52:23 
Re: help with thoughts about the chi square test of independence
jenmoocat <sollje2002@  2008-03-30 10:05:36 
Re: help with thoughts about the chi square test of independence
Paul Rubin <rubin@[EMA  2008-03-30 17:11:04 
Re: help with thoughts about the chi square test of independence
Richard Ulrich <Rich.U  2008-03-30 21:44:59 
Re: help with thoughts about the chi square test of independence
jenmoocat <sollje2002@  2008-03-31 08:22:00 
Re: help with thoughts about the chi square test of independence
Paul Rubin <rubin@[EMA  2008-03-31 16:03:08 
Re: help with thoughts about the chi square test of independence
mcap <mcam54@[EMAIL PR  2008-03-31 21:00:18 

Post A Reply:
  Go here to Signup

AddThis Feed Button


About - Advertising - Contact - Frequently Asked Questions - Privacy Policy - Terms of Use - Signup

Contact
tan12V112 Thu Jul 24 2:52:27 CDT 2008.