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Re: Trying to find significant factors in experimental results

by Richard Ulrich <Rich.Ulrich@[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Apr 13, 2008 at 08:52 PM

On Sun, 13 Apr 2008 07:12:25 -0700 (PDT), Rob <rt****lston@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
wrote:

> Rich,
> 
> Thanks for you response.  I've interspersed my comments below.
[snip, most]
RU > >
> > That is surely not the case.  The most powerful
> > tests have equal group sizes;  and cross-classifications
> > need cell sizes that are pro****tionate if the tests are
> > to remain independent and "unconfounded" with each
> > other.  There still can be tests.
> >
> >
> 
> I see.  So fringe populations (eg short sighted, colour blind, wearing
> contact lenses against those who don't) are less powerful as the
> population is enormously mis-blanced?  I presume this is because there
> might be a larger inter quartile range (or similar) within the small
> population because of the lower quantity of results?

No, that is not the reason.

When you compare two means, the test uses the
Standard Error of the two means - The SE is the Standard
deviation (pooled, or for equal variances) divided by 
the square root of N.  The mean and SE is considered
for each group.  When you have a fixed N to divide 
between two groups, the way to get the greatest precision
for both groups at once is to have equal Ns;  when Ns are
unequal, the precision lost for the smaller N  is worse than
the precision gained for the larger N.  In fact, this problem
can be quantified by computing the "equivalent N" for the
analysis, using the <reciprocal of the average of the reciprocals>
That is, given Ns of 10 and 100, the average of .1 and .01 is
..055; the reciprocal of that is 18.2 -- Thus, allocating 110 
people unequally gives the same power as comparing 18
versus 18.

Occasionally -- when variances are unequal -- there *can* 
be an advantage in having a greater N  for the group that
is more variable, if the test takes that into account, like
the "t-test for unequal variances."   Then the ideal is to 
achieve equal SEs for the two groups by varying the Ns.


[snip, rest]

-- 
Rich Ulrich

http://www.pitt.edu/~wpilib/index.html
 




 4 Posts in Topic:
Trying to find significant factors in experimental results
Rob <rtshilston@[EMAIL  2008-04-10 14:27:21 
Re: Trying to find significant factors in experimental results
Richard Ulrich <Rich.U  2008-04-10 20:22:14 
Re: Trying to find significant factors in experimental results
Rob <rtshilston@[EMAIL  2008-04-13 07:12:25 
Re: Trying to find significant factors in experimental results
Richard Ulrich <Rich.U  2008-04-13 20:52:42 

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