Talk About Network

Google


Register and Login
Nick
Password
Register create new account Sign up is FREE and you can post replies, new topics, bookmark posts and more!
Recover lost password


Education > Genealogy, Computing > Genealogical ev...
Latest [ Topics | Posts ] Archive Post A New Topic Post a Reply
<< Topic < Post Post 1 of 85 Topic 1900 of 2024
Post > Topic >>

Genealogical evidence and data model

by bobg@[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Robert Grumbine) Jan 14, 2008 at 08:42 PM

Oh well, a new person to the field, with ideas shaped by another,
to whine some about what's available.  Nothing new there.  But maybe
my whining can provide targets (some things I complain about might
be solved) or, as we continue, some sup****t for doing certain things
could develop.  I could write some suitable software to implement 
certain ideas, if it looked worthwhile.

  I've done some back reading as I get into the subject, including
the gedcom/xml arguments, and am not really trying to go back to those.

  One interesting thing to me was the mention of the GENTECH 
Genealogical Data Model.  The sad news there being that, apparently,
nobody actually implements it.  Or anything particularly close.

  I come to the computing/data from a science field (oceanography)
and one of the things which has promptly bothered me is that the
software available (paf, legacy, reunion) seems far too aimed
at conclusions rather than evidence, and even more poorly aimed
at representing source information trails.

  The evidence trail is something particularly bothersome
to me.  From my field, let's say our original observation is that it
was 22.2 C.  Now, if that was all we had, we'd be ticked, because it
doesn't tell us when the observation was taken, where it was, or
how it was taken.  All these metadata are im****tant, and usually you can
get them (with sufficient patience and phone calls, rather like
genealogy in that, it seems).  

  But that is only the proverbial tip of the ice berg.  Because 
that 22.2 C observation (with rest of sup****t) is almost certainly not 
exactly the number we're going to use for analyzing the air-sea
heat flux, or sea surface temperature, or whatever it is we're doing.
The thing is, each observing method has biases.  We know this, so 
adjust for them as relevant to our problem at hand.  The problem that
we _could_ run in to is that the 22.2 we now see is not the actual
original observation.  Someone could already have made the adjustment
for intake temperature bias.  How we avoid this is that the data
(are supposed to be) are given histories.  The original observation
(and its metadata) are augmented by a new value and _its_ metadata
(22.4 C after George applied John Doe's intake temperature bias 
correction, say), and this additional information then follows along.  
I could decide that John Doe's correction method is not the best, 
and instead apply, myself, Mary Roe's -- to the original 22.2, now 
that I know the 22.4 was after somebody else applied a correction I 
don't like to arrive at it.  Not clear to me yet (I've been doing 
some light reading of the data model do***ent, but not carefully 
nor complete) whether the GENTECH sup****ts this sort of consideration.

  A different problem is that the typical software treatment seems 
to be that it has little or no ability to track exactly what the
evidence and sources are.  For instance, it seems that if I im****t a 
file from someone and they cite a census record, I have my choice of 
ignoring that _my_ source was Jane Genealogist, not the orignal record, 
and preserve the census citation, or I can _add_ Jane as a source.  
Now this is a problem, in my mind.  When I look later, it will show 
two sources -- the census, and Jane.  But my real state of knowledge 
is only that Jane _said_ the census had some information.  This isn't 
two independant sources, it's 1 source, 1 step removed from the 
primary do***ent.  (Please, no jumping on that usage, I realize that 
there's a trade meaning to the term 'primary do***ent', and census 
isn't an example.)  What I want the software to do is, when I im****t 
a file that has citations, mark that my source is Jane, and her 
sources were ... whatever she said.  If I'm making a 20th generation 
copy/im****t (of a copy of a copy ...), then the software should show 
the prior 19 im****ters as well as the original person who looked at 
a do***ent.  GENTECH seems to sup****t this concern of mine, but
with no implementation thereof, I'm still sol.


-- 
Robert Grumbine http://www.radix.net/~bobg/
Science faqs and amateur
activities notes and links.
Sagredo (Galileo Galilei) "You present these recondite matters with too
much 
evidence and ease; this great facility makes them less appreciated than
they 
would be had they been presented in a more abstruse manner." Two New
Sciences
 




 85 Posts in Topic:
Genealogical evidence and data model
bobg@[EMAIL PROTECTED] (  2008-01-14 20:42:20 
Re: Genealogical evidence and data model
Ian Goddard <goddai01@  2008-01-14 21:16:23 
Re: Genealogical evidence and data model
Wes Groleau <groleau+n  2008-01-14 23:38:19 
Re: Genealogical evidence and data model
bobg@[EMAIL PROTECTED] (  2008-01-15 13:29:00 
Re: Genealogical evidence and data model
Wes Groleau <groleau+n  2008-01-17 04:39:17 
Re: Genealogical evidence and data model
singhals <singhals@[EM  2008-01-15 12:08:13 
Re: Genealogical evidence and data model
bobg@[EMAIL PROTECTED] (  2008-01-15 18:07:49 
Re: Genealogical evidence and data model
Dennis Lee Bieber <wlf  2008-01-15 10:27:26 
Re: Genealogical evidence and data model
Dennis Lee Bieber <wlf  2008-01-15 10:15:48 
Re: Genealogical evidence and data model
Lars Erik Bryld <larse  2008-01-15 19:39:34 
Re: Genealogical evidence and data model
Wes Groleau <groleau+n  2008-01-17 04:50:24 
Re: Genealogical evidence and data model
singhals <singhals@[EM  2008-01-17 15:51:06 
Non sequitur: (Re: Genealogical evidence and data model
Dennis Lee Bieber <wlf  2008-01-17 23:49:06 
Re: Non sequitur: (Re: Genealogical evidence and data model
bobg@[EMAIL PROTECTED] (  2008-01-18 14:35:32 
Re: Non sequitur: (Re: Genealogical evidence and data model
Wes Groleau <groleau+n  2008-01-18 19:43:16 
Re: Non sequitur: (Re: Genealogical evidence and data model
singhals <singhals@[EM  2008-01-19 10:56:02 
Re: Genealogical evidence and data model
"Kerry Raymond"  2008-01-19 09:35:56 
Re: Genealogical evidence and data model
JD <jd4x4@[EMAIL PROTE  2008-01-19 09:38:32 
Re: Genealogical evidence and data model
Robert G. Eldridge <ro  2008-01-20 11:31:15 
Re: Genealogical evidence and data model
Ian Goddard <goddai01@  2008-01-20 13:34:43 
Re: Genealogical evidence and data model
Tim Powys-Lybbe <tim@[  2008-01-20 14:35:26 
Re: Genealogical evidence and data model
Ian Goddard <goddai01@  2008-01-20 17:36:32 
Re: Genealogical evidence and data model
Bob LeChevalier <lojba  2008-01-20 17:36:32 
Re: Genealogical evidence and data model
Ian Goddard <goddai01@  2008-01-20 23:02:32 
Re: Genealogical evidence and data model
user@[EMAIL PROTECTED]   2008-01-20 08:40:28 
Re: Genealogical evidence and data model
singhals <singhals@[EM  2008-01-20 11:16:19 
Re: Genealogical evidence and data model
Charlie Hoffpauir <inv  2008-01-20 10:24:01 
Re: Genealogical evidence and data model
Ian Goddard <goddai01@  2008-01-20 17:45:56 
Re: Genealogical evidence and data model
Hugh Watkins <hugh.wat  2008-01-20 19:04:53 
Re: Genealogical evidence and data model
singhals <singhals@[EM  2008-01-21 11:14:15 
Re: Genealogical evidence and data model
Wes Groleau <groleau+n  2008-01-22 00:49:47 
Re: Genealogical evidence and data model
Tim Powys-Lybbe <tim@[  2008-02-03 16:32:07 
Re: Genealogical evidence and data model
Hugh Watkins <hugh.wat  2008-02-03 20:01:28 
Re: Genealogical evidence and data model
Wes Groleau <groleau+n  2008-02-04 05:29:38 
Re: Genealogical evidence and data model
Haines Brown <brownh@[  2008-02-04 09:13:38 
Re: Genealogical evidence and data model
Dennis Lee Bieber <wlf  2008-02-04 11:01:01 
Re: Genealogical evidence and data model
Wes Groleau <groleau+n  2008-01-20 22:21:32 
Re: Genealogical evidence and data model
Ian Goddard <goddai01@  2008-01-20 22:55:52 
Re: Genealogical evidence and data model
Wes Groleau <groleau+n  2008-01-20 23:26:02 
Re: Genealogical evidence and data model
Haines Brown <brownh@[  2008-02-03 11:23:23 
Re: Genealogical evidence and data model
Wes Groleau <groleau+n  2008-02-04 05:22:26 
Re: Genealogical evidence and data model
Haines Brown <brownh@[  2008-02-04 07:59:58 
Re: Genealogical evidence and data model
singhals <singhals@[EM  2008-02-04 11:35:44 
Re: Genealogical evidence and data model
Wes Groleau <groleau+n  2008-02-04 23:13:33 
Re: Genealogical evidence and data model
"Tony Proctor"   2008-01-30 17:39:37 
Re: Genealogical evidence and data model
singhals <singhals@[EM  2008-01-30 15:16:17 
Re: Genealogical evidence and data model
"Tony Proctor"   2008-01-31 09:56:57 
Re: Genealogical evidence and data model
Haines Brown <brownh@[  2008-02-03 07:51:46 
Re: Genealogical evidence and data model
Dennis Lee Bieber <wlf  2008-02-03 16:11:36 
Re: Genealogical evidence and data model
Denis Beauregard <deni  2008-01-15 13:18:28 
Re: Genealogical evidence and data model
bobg@[EMAIL PROTECTED] (  2008-01-15 18:34:21 
Re: Genealogical evidence and data model
melsonr@[EMAIL PROTECTED]  2008-01-17 05:58:41 
Re: Genealogical evidence and data model
Haines Brown <brownh@[  2008-01-31 07:11:12 
Re: Genealogical evidence and data model
Ian Goddard <goddai01@  2008-01-31 16:03:38 
The need for event-based software
Steve Hayes <hayesmstw  2008-02-01 04:15:45 
Re: The need for event-based software
Eagle@[EMAIL PROTECTED]   2008-02-01 15:13:29 
Re: The need for event-based software
Hugh Watkins <hugh.wat  2008-02-03 22:04:41 
Re: The need for event-based software
Steve Hayes <hayesmstw  2008-02-04 04:14:57 
Re: The need for event-based software
shane@[EMAIL PROTECTED]   2008-02-07 21:10:00 
Re: The need for event-based software
Steve Hayes <hayesmstw  2008-02-09 10:20:13 
The need for record-based software
Ian Goddard <goddai01@  2008-02-08 14:21:52 
Re: The need for record-based software
Dennis Lee Bieber <wlf  2008-02-08 11:21:35 
Re: Genealogical evidence and data model
singhals <singhals@[EM  2008-02-01 10:30:19 
Re: Genealogical evidence and data model
mojaveg@[EMAIL PROTECTED]  2008-02-01 09:07:37 
Re: Genealogical evidence and data model
Dennis Lee Bieber <wlf  2008-02-01 10:24:42 
Re: Genealogical evidence and data model
Haines Brown <brownh@[  2008-01-31 20:41:20 
Re: Genealogical evidence and data model
Wes Groleau <groleau+n  2008-02-01 20:14:46 
Re: Genealogical evidence and data model
Ian Goddard <goddai01@  2008-02-08 12:44:05 
Re: Genealogical evidence and data model
Haines Brown <brownh@[  2008-02-01 20:57:39 
Re: Genealogical evidence and data model
Wes Groleau <groleau+n  2008-02-02 03:06:26 
Re: Genealogical evidence and data model
Wes Groleau <groleau+n  2008-02-02 16:06:50 
Re: Genealogical evidence and data model
singhals <singhals@[EM  2008-02-02 11:49:26 
Re: Genealogical evidence and data model
Haines Brown <brownh@[  2008-02-01 16:24:12 
Re: Genealogical evidence and data model
Dennis Lee Bieber <wlf  2008-02-01 22:05:01 
Re: Genealogical evidence and data model
Haines Brown <brownh@[  2008-02-02 13:58:29 
Re: Genealogical evidence and data model
Dennis Lee Bieber <wlf  2008-02-02 18:13:34 
Re: Genealogical evidence and data model
Ian Goddard <goddai01@  2008-02-08 16:10:32 
Re: Genealogical evidence and data model
Haines Brown <brownh@[  2008-02-02 17:53:09 
Re: Genealogical evidence and data model
Haines Brown <brownh@[  2008-02-02 18:23:12 
Re: Genealogical evidence and data model
Wes Groleau <groleau+n  2008-02-02 19:24:28 
Re: Genealogical evidence and data model
Haines Brown <brownh@[  2008-02-02 21:32:49 
Re: Genealogical evidence and data model
Dennis Lee Bieber <wlf  2008-02-02 22:00:02 
Re: Genealogical evidence and data model
Hugh Watkins <hugh.wat  2008-02-03 07:16:34 
Re: Genealogical evidence and data model
Denis Beauregard <deni  2008-02-03 01:50:27 
Re: Genealogical evidence and data model
singhals <singhals@[EM  2008-02-03 12:01:24 

Post A Reply:
  Go here to Signup

AddThis Feed Button


About - Advertising - Contact - Frequently Asked Questions - Privacy Policy - Terms of Use - Signup

Contact
tan12V112 Thu Jul 24 3:14:59 CDT 2008.