I have seen the German convention of * and + used in the Deutsches
Geschlecterbuch for birth and death, so that is no problem. Whoever
started
it made it compact.
However, I have a question on these numerical day.month.year dates...what
month is actually being represented???
By the Julian calendar in England and Ireland, the year AD was originally
reckoned from the Annunciation on 25 March.
>From after the sixth century until 1066, it started Christmas Day, 25
December.
The year started 1 January from 1067-1155.
Here's the problem during the medieval and later periods:
>From 1155 to 1750/1 the year started again during the Annunciation on
March
25. Using "1" for January (Have you done this since it's not obvious?)
would
invite confusion since that wasn't the first month of the year. That
didn't
start again until the day after 31 December 1751, 1 January 1752.
1752 was the year of change for England. Wednesday, 2 September 1752 was
followed by Gregorian Thursday, 14 September 1752.
(I prefer to use either 3 letter or full alphabetic months myself for this
illustration.)
John J. Bond, "Commencement of the Year", Handy-book of rules and tables
for verifying dates with the Christian era, (London: 1875), 91-101.
http://books.google.com/books?id=F3mcB6GnOtIC&printsec=frontcover#PPA91,M1
We still retain the old Roman Latinized names and original position for a
few numerical months.
our Gregorian Calendar's 9th month, September, 7th month
our 10th month, October, 8th month
our 11th month, November, 9th month
our 12th month, December, 10th month
----- Original Message -----
From: "Douglas Richardson" <royalancestry@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.medieval
To: <gen-medieval@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
Sent: Friday, May 09, 2008 8:54 PM
Subject: Re: Sir Robert de Holand and his wife, Maud la Zouche
Dear Newsgroup ~
Below is a rough draft of an outlne of the descendants of Sir Robert
de Holand, Knt., 1st Lord Holand, and his wife, Maud la Zouche.
Additions/corrections are welcome.
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
HOLAND FAMILY
A1. Robert de Holand, Knt., 1st Lord Holand, *ca 1283, +beheaded
Boreham Wood, Elstree, Hertford****re 7.10.1328, m. before 1309/10
(contracted to marry in or before 1305/6) Maud la Zouche (*ca 1290,
+31.5.1349, bur. at Brackley, Northampton****re).
B1. Robert de Holand, Knt., 2nd Lord Holand, *ca 1311-1312,
+Brackley 16.3.1373, bur there; m. Elizabeth _____.
C1. Robert de Holand, of of Nether Kellet, Lanca****re,
+1359/72; m. 1355 Alice de Lisle.
D1. Maud Holand, Lady Holand, *1356, +7.5.1423; m. 1372
John Lovel, 5th Lord Lovel (+10.9.1408).
C2. Thomas de Holand.
C3. Gilbert de Holand, clerk.
C4. John Holand, Knt., of Thorpe Waterville,
Northampton****re, *ca 1347-49, +409/1417; 1m. ca 1373 Elizabeth
Greene, 2m. Margaret _____.
D1. (by 2m.). John Holand, Knt., of Thorpe Watervillle,
Northampton****re, +ca 1451, m. Ellen _____.
D2. (by 2m.) Elizabeth Holand, +after 1441; m.Roger
Fiennes, Knt., of Herstmonceux, Sus*** (*1384 +1449)
D3. (by 2m.). Margaret Holand, m. John Beauchamp, Knt.,
of Bletsoe, Bedford****re.
B2. Thomas de Holand, K.G., Earl of Kent, +Normandy 26 (or 28)
8.12.1360, bur. Stamford; Lincoln****re, m. 1339 Joan of England ("Fair
Maid of Kent") (*29.9.1328 +7 (or 8).8.1385).
C1. Thomas Holand, Earl of Kent, *ca 1350-1351, +25.4.1397,
bur Bourne Abbey, Lincoln****re; m. 10.4.1364 Alice Arundel (*ca 1352,
+17.3.1416).
D1. Eleanor Holand, *13.10.1370, +23.10.1405; 1m.
7.10.1388 Roger Mortimer, Knt., 4th Earl of March, 7th Earl of Ulster
(*11.4.1374, +20.7.1398); 2m. 19.6.1399 Edward Cherleton, K.G., 5th
Lord Cherleton (+14.3.1421).
D2. Thomas Holand, K.G., Earl of Kent, -cr Duke of
Surrey 1397, *8.9.1372, +beheaded Cirencester 7.1.1400; m. aft
20.10.1392 Joan Stafford (+1.10.1442).
D3. John Holand, *1374, +1394.
D4. Richard Holand, Canon of Lincoln, *1376, +1396.
D5. Joan Holand, *ca 1380/1384, +12.4.1434; 1m.
24.11.1393 Edmund of Langley, K.G., Duke of York (*5.6.1341,
+1.8.1402); 2m. 26.3.1406 William Willoughby, K.G., 4th Lord
Willoughby of Eresby (+Edgefield 4.12.1409); 3m. 6.9.1410 Henry le
Scrope, K.G., 3rd Lord Scrope of Masham (+executed Southampton
5.8.1415); 4m. 1415 Henry (or Harry) Bromflete, Knt., Lord Vescy
(+16.1.1469).
D6. Edmund Holand, K.G., Earl of Kent, Lord Wake,
*9.1.1382, m. Southwark, Surrey 24.1.1407 Lucy Visconti (+14.4.1424).
E1. Illegitimate: dau.: Eleanor Holand; m. IX.
1430 James Tuchet, Knt., 5th Lord Audley (*ca 1398, +k.a.Blore Heath
23.9.1459).
D7. Eleanor Holand, *1384, +by 1424; m. 23.5.1399
Thomas Montagu, K.G., Earl of Salisbury (*1388 +Meung 3.11.1428).
D8. Margaret Holand, *ca 1385/1386, +Bermondsey Abbey
30.12.1439, bur Canterbury Cathedral; 1m. before 23.4.1399 John
Beaufort, Earl of Somerset, Marquess of Dorset (*1373 +21.4.1410); 2m.
1412 Thomas of Lancaster, K.B., K.G., Duke of Clarence (*1388
+22.3.1421).
D9. Elizabeth Holand, * ca 1388, +4.1.1423; m.
Brancepeth 29.8.1394 John Neville, Knt., of Sutton (in Galtres),
York****re (+20.5.1420).
D10. Anne Holand, *1389.
C2. Edmund Holand, died young.
C3. John Holand, K.G., Earl of Huntingdon, Duke of Exeter,
*after 1350, +beheaded Pleshey Castle 9 (or 10).1.1400, bur Pleshy
Castle; m.at or near Plymouth, Devon 24.6.1385 Elizabeth [of]
Lancaster (*21.2.1363, +24.11.1425).
D1. Richard Holand, +3.9.1400.
D2. John Holand, K.G., Duke of Exeter, Earl of
Huntingdon and Ivry, *Dartington, Devon 29.3.1395 (or 1396), +
5.8.1447; 1m. 15.7.1427 Anne Stafford (*ca 1406, +20.9.1432), 2m.
20.1.1433 Beatrice of ****tugal (*ca 1386 +23.10.1439); 3m. ca 1440
Anne Montagu (+28.11.1457).
E1. (by 1m.) Henry (or Harry) Holand, Knt., Duke
of Exeter, Earl of Huntingdon and Ivry, Admiral of England, Constable
of the Tower, *Tower of London 27.6.1430, +drowned La Manche IX.1475;
m. 30.7.1447 (div 1472) Anne Plantagenet (*10.8.1439 +14.1.1476).
F1. Anne Holand, +by 6.6.1474; m. Greenwich
X.1466 Thomas Grey, K.G., 1st Marquess of Dorset (*1451, +30.8.1501).
E2. (by 1m.) Anne Holand, +26.12.1486; 1m.
18.2.1442 John Neville, Knt. (*ca 1427, +k.a.1450); 2m. 5.9.1452 John
Neville, Knt., Lord Neville (+28.3.1461); 3m. 1461 James Douglas,
K.G., 9th Earl Douglas (*1426, +Lindores 1491).
E3. (illegitimate). William of Exeter, Knt.,
Bastard of Exeter, living 1463.
E4. (illegitimate). Thomas Holand, Bastard of
Exeter, re****tedly executed by Warwick at Coventry, Warwick****re in
March 1460/1.
E5. (illegitimate) Robert Holand, Esq., of
Manerbier and Penally, Pembroke****re, living 1458, m. Margaret
_____. They had two daughters, Jane (wife of John Kendall and John
Trelawny, Knt.) and Elizabeth (wife of John Reskymer).
D3. Edward Holand, Knt., Count of Mortain.
D4. Constance Holand, *ca 1387, +XI.1431/37, 1m.
1.6.1402 Thomas Mowbray, Knt., Earl of Norfolk, Earl of Nottingham,
Earl Marshal (*17.9.1385, +beheaded York 8.6.1405); 2m. before Trinity
term 1410 John Grey, K.G., of Ruthin, Denbigh****re (+27.8.1439).
D5. Alice Holand, m. Richard Vere, K.G., 11th Earl of
Oxford.
C4. Joan de Holand, *1350, +after 25.12.1384; m. London V.
1366 Jean(or John) de Montfort, K.G., Duke of Brittany, Count of
Montfort-l’Amaury, Earl of Richmond (*1339 +1.11.1399).
C5. Maud de Holand, +by 13.4.1392; 1m. 5.9.1363 Hugh de
Courtenay, Knt. (+20.2.1373/4); 2m. Windsor 1380 Waleran de
Luxembourg, Knt., Count of Ligny and Saint-Pol (*1357, +12.4.1415).
B3. Otes de Holand, K.G., Ashford, Chesterfield, and Dalbury,
Derby****re, +3.9.1359, s.p. m. Joan _____.
B4. Alan de Holand, living 3 Feb. 1322, d.s.p.
B5. Isabel de Holand, mistress of John de Warenne, Knt., 8th Earl
of Surrey.
B6. Margaret de Holand, +20 (or 22).8.1349; m. before 1326 John
la Warre, Knt., of Wickwar, Gloucester****re (+about 24.6.1331).
B7. Maud de Holand, 1m. John de Mowbray, Knt., 3rd Lord Mowbray;
2m Thomas de Swinnerton, Knt., 3rd Lord Swinnerton.(+XII.1361).
B8. Elizabeth de Holand, +13.7.1387; m. Henry Fitz Roger, Knt.
B9. Eleanor de Holand, +by 21.11.1341; m. Notton 8.7.1332 John
Darcy, Knt., 2nd Lord Darcy (+Notton 5.3.1356).
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