----- Original Message -----=20
From: Terry Orrell=20
To: GEN-MEDIEVAL-L-request@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Thursday, June 12, 2008 6:41 PM
Subject: The identity of Dame Jane Peche.
The wife of Sir William Peche of Lullingstone, sometime Sheriff of Kent, =
Knight of the King's Household and King's carver (d.1488) is given in =
Burke's as Beatrice Chicheley. Sometime ago, on this site, Adrian =
Channing showed that this was in error and that Sir William's wife was =
probably a member of the Clifford family.
Sir William Peche is ancestral to many families including the Stanley's =
of Cross Hall (later Earls of Derby); Talbots of Bashall: Rishtons: =
Astleys: and many others who descend from these families.
To determine the mysterious wife we need to look at the evidences. =
Firstly it was another Sir William Peche grandfather of our subject, who =
married Florence (not Beatrice) Chichely, which gave rise to the =
mistaken identity in Burke's. The will of Sir John Peche (1524) =
mentions his father Sir William and his mother Dame Jane.
The arms on the brass of Sir William in Lullingstone church and on the =
tomb of his son Sir John Peche identify Jane as a member of the Clifford =
family. =20
At that time in Kent there was a local Clifford family descended from =
the parent stock of Westmorland. However, this family bore the Clifford =
arms with a bordure. The arms on the monuments are the undifferenced =
arms of the Westmorland family with no cadency marks. No pedigree of =
the Westmorland Cliffords contains a Jane Clifford who married Sir =
William Peche.
There is a Joan (interchangeable with Jane at this time) Clifford =
daughter of Thomas, Lord Clifford (d.1455) and Henry, Lord Clifford the =
'shepherd lord' (d.1522) had a daughter Jane. The generation between is =
that of John, Lord Clifford killed at the battle of Ferrybridge in 1461 =
known as 'the Butcher' or Black faced Clifford. John Clifford is said =
to have had five daughters, only two of whom are named, Marjorie wife of =
Martin Attsea and Elizabeth wife of Sir Robert Aske. It would be =
unusual not to have had a daughter Joan (Jane) as his mother was Joan =
Dacre, and he had a sister Joan. Henry his son, named his first =
daughter Jane.
With this possibility in mind I looked for other clues that may link the =
two families. The Cliffords were staunch Lancastrians during the Wars =
of the Roses. After the death of John in 1461 he was attainted, his =
lands and goods forfeited. His young sons went into hiding. One of his =
manors was given to Nicholas Gaynesford a squire to Edward IV and a =
colleague of Sir William. Gaynesford was later a party to the marriage =
settlement of John Peche in 1492. Lady Clifford was married off to a =
Lancastrian knight, Sir Lawrence Threlkeld by whom she had a second =
family. She was making marriage arrangements for a daughter of this =
second marriage in 1468 when the child was only a few years old. It =
would seem likely that her daughters of her first marriage would also be =
married off. At the inquest of Sir William Peche in 1490 his son John's =
age was given as 17 years and above, being born therefore around 1473. =
In March 1471/2 Henry Clifford received his pardon from the King. His =
sisters therefore gained in value as marriage partners. =20
Sir Robert Wingfield was Comptroller of the Household to Edward IV and =
another colleague of Sir William. He may have been instrumental at =
around this time of obtaining the marriage of his nephew, Thomas =
Wingfield to Mary Clifford, niece of John, Lord Clifford. The families =
of Wingfield and Peche were well known to each other, Sir William Peche =
was himself the heir to his great aunt Katherine widow of William =
Wingfield (d.1418). Sir Robert was Lord Deputy of Calais, a post later =
held by Sir John Peche.
Sir Robert Wingfield's widow married John, Lord Scrope who was uncle to =
Elizabeth Scrope (daughter of Robert) wife of Sir John Peche. This =
brings in the Scrope connection. Robert Scrope of Hambleton in =
Berk****re was a younger brother of John, Lord Scrope of Bolton in =
York****re. His wife was Katherine daughter of William, Lord Zouche =
whose father had been married to Ann St John who became the second wife =
of John, Lord Scrope. Ann St John was sister of John St John, whose =
daughter Ann married as his first wife, Henry, Lord Clifford. This =
marriage between Henry Clifford and Ann St John occurred in 1487, the =
marriage of John Peche and Elizabeth Scrope would seem to have occurred =
in 1492 when a settlement of his estates was made, one of the trustees =
being Robert Scrope. John Peche's wife Elizabeth was niece therefore to =
Ann (St John) wife of her uncle, and to Elizabeth Scrope who had married =
Oliver St John, younger brother of John St John. They in turn were =
uncle and aunt to the wife of Henry Clifford. John, Lord Scrope's first =
wife was Joan FitzHugh who was first cousin to Margaret Bromflete, wife =
of John, Lord Clifford. John Lord Scrope was also a second cousin of =
John, Lord Clifford by their common descent from Ralph Neville, Earl of =
Westmorland (d.1425) So, he, his brother Robert and their children were =
cousins to Henry, Lord Clifford and his sisters. If Jane were the =
daughter of John Clifford, it would make her son, Sir John Peche and his =
bride Elizabeth Scrope 3rd cousins once removed.
John Peche's marriage occurred while he was still a minor and as an =
orphan his marriage would probably have been arranged by his kindred, in =
this case the Cliffords. Sir Robert Clifford, brother of John, Lord =
Clifford and uncle of Henry was a colleague of John, Lord Scrope and had =
been a mainpernor for him in 1487. Therefore if Jane were daughter of =
John Clifford, Sir John Peche would be his great-nephew and marrying the =
niece of Lord Scrope. Sir Robert was infamous in the Perkin Warbeck =
affair and as part of his reward for naming the conspirators he was =
granted a place in King Henry VII's court as a knight of the body and =
Master of the Ordnance. Sir John Peche gained a place in the King's =
household around 1494, possibly due to the influence of Robert who =
would be his great-uncle, he was also made a knight of the body.
Another coincidence would appear to be the marriage of Elizabeth Peche, =
daughter of Sir William and Jane, to John Hart a Barrister of Westmill =
in Hertford****re. It seems strange that Elizabeth from a Kentish family =
married into a somewhat obscure gentry family in Hertford****re many =
miles away. The link again seems to be Sir Robert Clifford whose wife =
brought him the manor of Aspenden in Hertford****re where he resided. =
The neighbouring manor to Aspenden is Westmill.
In the next generation Ann daughter of John Hart and Elizabeth Peche =
married as his second wife, Edmund Talbot of Bashall in York****re. =
Again, an unusual marriage for the daughter of a minor Hertford****re =
family to marry so far from home. But, there is another Clifford =
connection, as Edmund was the brother and heir of Sir Thomas Talbot =
whose widow, Florence, had become the second wife of Henry, Lord =
Clifford, who may therefore have been instrumental in introducing his =
great-niece to his wife's former brother in law, who was also one of his =
neighbours.
After the death of Edmund Talbot in 1520, Ann Hart married Sir James =
Stanley of Cross Hall in Lathom, Lanca****re whose sister Jane, as a =
child had been affianced to Henry infant child to Henry, Lord Clifford. =
(The marriage did not take place due to the death of young Henry). Ann =
lived long enough to see her husband's great-nephew, Henry Stanley, Earl =
of Derby, marry Margaret daughter of Henry Clifford, Earl of ***berland, =
her second cousin.
The co-incidences and connections shown make it difficult to override =
the evidence of the arms on the tombs of Sir William and Sir John Peche, =
that Jane was indeed a Clifford and that she was the daughter of John, =
Lord Clifford (k.1461) and his wife Margaret Bromflete.
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